Mike Kim - Best selling author of "You Are the Brand", Brand Strategist, Speaker

Jason Frazell: 0:12

My guest on the podcast today is somebody I've gotten to know quite well over the last two years. We actually met Mike through, I met you via your email list through a mutual friend, Michael Hudson, who is my third guest on this show, and then came back around again. He's been on twice. So Mike, we've been talking about this for a while. On the air. My guest today is Mike Kim. He's the best selling author of you are the brand. And he's a strategist and man. All sorts of other things that we're going to get into today. Mike, thanks for being on. Dude, I'm pumped to be here. I love your show. I'm honored to be on shout out to Michael Hudson for for making the connect one way or another. I've known him for years and years. And so I'm just glad to be here. Yeah, mutual friends. It is quite the small world. So you're also a podcaster. You vote your longtime podcast, or you do a lot of podcast guests. So I think we're going to do some riffing today, most likely, you know, between you and I, we have gotten between you and I we must have what 500 Plus episodes under our belt. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Let's and I'm also excited with this because I know Mike in a variety of ways. And also, I have no idea how you're going to answer most of these questions, which is makes it even more fun. Because usually I have one or the other. I have like somebody I really know. Well, I'm like, Oh, I kind of think I know what they're gonna say. Or I have somebody I've literally never met before. And you're like, in between, like, alright, it's gonna get to know Mike. Well, so Mike, let's kick it off here. What's something you nerd out about?

Mike Kim: 1:33

Oh, what do I nerd out about? Okay. I will nerd out and watch endless YouTube videos about outer space. And like the universe, usually I'm Hi, when I do this, I'll be at full, full, full confidence here. And I know we'll never, you know, like, humanity will never understand all the answers. But it just, I mean, I nerd about I nerd out about that stuff. I will watch hours and hours of Yeah, like, what's out there how big the universe really is. You know, they've got the new telescope that went out that sort of complements the Hubble telescope. And it's just like, what is out there? Are we really on this floating rock in the middle of nowhere by ourselves, which is terrifying. And I think it's more terrifying than if there were aliens or other life beings out there. I mean, this is it. I'm like, Oh my gosh, like, give me all the drugs now. If this, this is it, like, give it to me now, you know. But I nerd out about that stuff. Like, I'm not a scientist, but I've always been fascinated by outer space. And you know, you and I are both the same age. So I'm in my 40s now and like, we're not old, but we're not young. And we're like, old enough to know that. Like, gosh, life is really short. We're very mortal. Right? Yeah. And I'm just like, what is out there? I've never really thought about this, you know, and I nerd out about that stuff.

Jason Frazell: 3:05

Were you uh, were you like an astronaut kid? When you're little does that something that you thought was cool? And do you like, do you like a sci fi like sports, space movies, and all those sort of things.

Mike Kim: 3:16

I loved outer space stuff. I just was not good at science or math. And so I never really pursued it. Like I loved it like as a kid. And I love Star Wars. We've never really got into Star Trek. I love Star Wars. I know that sound science is all wonky there. And I don't watch too much sci fi stuff. Because most of the time sci fi stuff, especially probably the last 20 years. It has just become an allegory for political issues. Yep. True. So the long long eared aliens hate the short year aliens and why can't they just get along? And it's like, just as big allegory for like earthly politics. I'm like, No, I don't want to watch this stuff. Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 3:55

And then also, they're like, we're fighting over a universe, which is almost infinitesimal. And we could each have a very big portion of this. And we'd all be great.

Mike Kim: 4:04

Yeah, just go over there. Like there's nobody over there. Yeah, so it's like, so I don't get too much into the Sci Fi stuff, per se. More recently, I have been buying all the toys that my parents could not afford to get me where they used to give me yeah, if you look over here on the side, I just got a shipment of transformers. I saw. Every transformer auto bought that I wanted as a kid. Now, these are not the original ones. They're like the reissues. But I just have them in a box. And I haven't opened them yet. And I'm like, I don't want to open them, but I want to open them. And it's just this weird thing that I'm going through right now. Maybe this is what midlife people do in our day and age. You know?

Jason Frazell: 4:50

Yeah, well, you know, so transformers. I'm my version of that Mike is Legos. I was I love transformers too. I actually I wanted the He, the Decepticon plane back in the day, I forget what his name is. But it's like the stars just like basic F 14 Tomcat, but yeah. Oh yeah. Mike's about to go pull it. Yeah, he's got it. Yeah, that's it. Yep, exactly. What's that Decepticons

Mike Kim: 5:14

name? Starscream

Jason Frazell: 5:16

Starscream. And my parents wouldn't buy it for me. Yeah, similar. My version of that is Legos. Man school. I just bought the Legos, Fender guitar, the target and built it. And it's really cool. It's small. But you know, it's funny. Like, it's funny you say this, because I feel the same way you get into your, you do well in business and you have some additional income, then you're like, what are all the therapeutic things I have going on that I can address through just going and doing it? Yeah. For me, unfortunately, technology and guitars, which has a lot more transformers.

Mike Kim: 5:53

It's weird, too. Because like, I'd be like, No, I can definitely afford this. Like, these are not really that expensive. They're like 50 bucks apiece, and I bought like six of them. And I will bloat I will blow $300 A night on dinner and drinks. totally right. And I'm like, and then like all this resistance, like bubbles up to the surface? I mean, no, why would I that's a waste of money. And I'm like, hearing myself say you're a coach, right? And I coach people and like, I get what's kind of going on. But it's just so weird. We have this script and this narrative. And I'm like, No, I don't deserve that. Or that's like a waste of money. Yeah. And like, that's exactly what my parents probably said to me. Like, God bless them, you know, they met the best they could. But like, that's probably what they said to me about those toys. Um, I definitely know, my dad would make fun of me for playing with those toys. Really? Why always changing the toys and massaging them and stuff like that. I'm like, What an ass. You know, we're good now. Right? We're good now. But like, I would just think about that. Like, you get into your 20s and 30s. Like you said, you get busy get you get grinding at work. And like, you know, you started a family and, and then now we're like, at this point, we're just like, wait, I think I want to just go get it for the, for the hell yeah. So yeah,

Jason Frazell: 7:05

my my version of this. And then we're going to we're going to move on here because I think you and I could probably geek out about this, my real version of this because I try to be cautious with spending. My real version of this is I've been a gamer since I was like six or seven. And I know you're a gamer as well, is literally anything that comes out for gaming that I want to get. I just get. I'm like, oh, that game that looks okay. Let me spend it. And so yes, I was one of the I was one of the PS five paid double retail price the day like the day after it came out.

Mike Kim: 7:35

Oh, so like, I got that too. I had

Jason Frazell: 7:38

a feeling you did? So Mike, what's something that is in your comfort zone? And you know, it's going to be outside of somebody else? And I'm going to take a few of the things I know you do a lot just off the table, and you probably weren't gonna answer, you know, speaking No, like wrote a book, maybe that is outside your comfort zone. But speaking writing a book, all these things, people like I would never do that, like you've done the thing. So what is something that is in your wheelhouse that you know, other people will not do?

Mike Kim: 8:05

I will try almost anything once. I know that's very vague. I'm just wired that way, the more and more of these personality tests that I do. Recently, I got into human design. Yeah, not too in depth. But I'm a one three on the human design. And I don't really know what that meant. I didn't really know what that meant. Yeah, all this kind of woowoo stuff. And I read the assessment. Oh, that's totally me. How do they know this? And one of the characteristics is that I'm a martyr. And I was like, what does that mean? And it basically just means that no matter what advice I get from people, no matter what kind of cautionary tales, I hear, whatever they tell me, I'm not going to listen, I just have to find out for myself. So I mentioned before, like, I'd watch all the space videos when I'm high, I would delve it I would dabble into psychedelics therapeutically, not just to get high or whatever, not just to like have a good time. I've mostly done it in really intentional settings. That makes people uncomfortable when I talk about that with them. Other things that are like maybe more normal day to day. I think that I'm very comfortable making friends with very different types of people. I've always noticed that I was good at that I can be friend, the you know, kind of uppity like bougie snooty, you know, people in that part of society. And I can be friend like the local, you know, blue collar in the bar kind of guy. And I think I got that a lot from my musician days. You know, and it's just been easy to do that. And then golf. I just love I like golf. I like playing golf. Some people hate it because they're bad.

Jason Frazell: 9:54

Right, Mike? So what's something that is outside your comfort zone and I love asking people that go and pretty much Chuck for anything. I've had a bunch of guests that have said that I'm like, Alright, cool. So I'm going to ask you anyway, what's something that is outside of your comfort zone?

Mike Kim: 10:07

Dancing, I am the worst dancer ever. I would joke with people that all the rhythm in my body is from my elbow to my finger. Because you know, I can play guitar, and I play piano, and I've read them there, but nothing else in my body. After I got divorced, I like dated for the real first time in my life, like my ex wife was really the only second she was the second girl I ever really dated. Yeah. And that was in my 20s, my early 20s. So I didn't go out. And so when I had worse, like, I'm in my late 30s, early 40s, like whatever. And my friends were taking me out, not necessarily to the club with a bunch of 20 Somethings, but just to bars and like you were in the city. And my buddy Henry, who you've met is like one literally, like, he, I'm not trying to be like, weird or anything, but like, we're stereotypical, but he is like a black guy in a Korean body. Like we literally went to a bar in the city downtown, as predominantly African American Bar. And we just walked out like, Dude, what are we doing here, man? You say no, it's always a good time here. He starts dance all these people crowd around him. Because there's just, it's this dude with his moves. And we did the same thing in DC at a club. We went to Park and 14 in DC and it's like, predominantly black club. And all these girls and guys would just walk up like, what is this dude doing? And I'm just standing over there like a wallflower. We went out with some of his work friends one time here in the city. And one of his friends Stephanie. She's a teenage girl. She's like, Mike, I'm gonna help you dance. This is you are so pathetic. This is so sad. I mean, she meant it in good fun. So like, move like this. I'm like, Dude, I can't I cannot do this. So it's outside of my comfort zone. And I know people say this, Jason like, no one's really looking at you. But no, they're definitely looking at me. I'm a six foot three Korean guy. We are not very common when when I walk in people like what is that? And then I start dancing. They're like, Oh, no, no, like, Bro. So that is totally outside of my comfort zone. I still will do it. It will depend what other altered states I'm in? You know? Yeah, I may be able to do it a little bit more without being sheepish, but that is absolutely outside of my comfort zone.

Jason Frazell: 12:27

No, man. I'm a challenger. So I'm like, Alright, like, how can we get Mike on the floor some time. But I what I will say is the good news is you'll never be mistaken for a member of a kpop band. That's because you're tall and you don't dance.

Mike Kim: 12:40

That's true. And I'm like, I'm not I don't look feminine. Exactly. Right. And that's how Kpop stars are bred. Like they hold their fashion to look that way. Right. It's an intentional thing. So yeah,

Jason Frazell: 12:55

man, for everybody listening, like we haven't a lot of mutual friends are gonna be like, Yeah, Mike, is we're gonna make it happen. Like, you're not gonna have a choice at some point.

Mike Kim: 13:02

That's fine. I'm down if it's with people I know. But in total, general public know. Yeah,

Jason Frazell: 13:08

I'm not I'm not great either. So we can we can sit the corner and misery or misery or not misery like we don't you know, give no laughs at some point. So Mike, you do a you do a lot of speaking on a variety of topics. We give you five minutes. And you get to choose one thing to speak to all of us about everybody gets to hear it. What is it that you would talk to us about? What would you want us to do at the end of those five minutes.

Mike Kim: 13:35

I would say, in five minutes, I would make a case for why being honest with yourself is the best way to live. And to find happiness. I do a lot of things on the business side. I help people with their businesses, help them market things and market themselves. And I can only help them if they're really, really honest with themselves, right? Like it. And that's what I love about business. If they're just like, hey, I want to make more money, and I want to be famous, great. I've almost feel like a lawyer. I'm like, Just tell me the truth. I'm not going to judge you. Yeah, but if you don't, if you lie to me, if you're not honest about what you really, really want, and you sugarcoat it, we're not gonna get anywhere. And I think, as I've kind of moved into, you know, this stage of my life, and you just said, you know, just don't give any apps, you know, and that's really like, what it's about, like, I think it's, if we just had more people in the world who could be more honest with themselves, they would stop hiding and deceiving. And then it would actually allow them to see what their motives are, why they want certain things, and they probably make healthier choices. I actually believe in humanity. If we take the mask off, right, but the more we try to hide things are ulterior motives and a lot of subversive stuff. I come from Asian cultures is very much like that, you know, everything is implied it's not straightforward. And there's all these, you know, who wrote the book of unwritten rules? Can we just throw it out? Oh, it doesn't exist. Right. But that's what I would talk about, in some way, shape or form, you know?

Jason Frazell: 15:17

Yeah. I love that. That's also I think you and I know, we have a similar personality type. And, you know, even on assessments, and like, that's a very high thing as well as you like, rules. Those are suggestions.

Mike Kim: 15:31

Yeah. It's funny, because I, I grew up in like, the church world, right. That was my first real career. And that whole world is just about pretending that you're good. Hopefully. Right. And, I mean, everything is pretense. I'm not saying that, like, 100% of it is artificial or fake. But I know for a fact, count, I pray every married couple that's gone to church has at least once fought in the car on the way to church, got out of the parking lot was a bless you. God bless you. How are you doing?

Jason Frazell: 16:05

You know, we could also say, I can factually say the subway would be another place that that would happen.

Mike Kim: 16:11

Yes, yes, exactly. And you go into this world, and like, you know, I, I became a better person, once I stopped pretending I was a good person. Because I was just more honest about myself and what I want, and what my faults were, and what my motives were. And that just kind of opened the veil, not just in front of other people, but to myself. And if we could do that, as a society and just help people do that. I think things would make a, it would be a long change. But it would be for the better. It'd be a step in the right direction, a small step, but it'd be a step in the right direction.

Jason Frazell: 16:53

Yeah, that's the kind of work that I do. And you do as well. So it's, it's cool. I like that too. And it reminds me and before we go to the commercial break here that we can win you out, you know, when you're coaching somebody is we both do and you say, what do you want to get out of this relationship? And they like, then they feed like my grandparents, good old Kansas people, they they call they feed your line of bullshit. And you're like, you just know it. You're like, what do you really want? Right? Oh, I want to meet make more of an impact at work. I'm like, Uh huh. This is an interview. What do you really want? You know, like, I want to work less hours and make more money. Great. So okay, so how do we do that? Right? If you're like, you know, this to working with a lot of coaches and such a lot of it's like, I want to make more of a global impact and serve more people. I'm like, is that really what you want? Or is that the way you want to make more money? Right? And yes, you get and the good news is you can actually do both. It's not an either or. That's cool. I love that, Mike. All right. That's great. I hope you I think you should give that speech if you haven't already. I'm working on it. Nice. All right, we're gonna take a brief commercial break. We'll be right back after this.

Unknown: 18:02

The talking to cool people podcast is brought to you by Jason for sell coaching. Jason works with amazing people who are looking to find and develop their passion and purpose and create their journey to wherever it is they want to go. Check us out at Jason frazell.com, Facebook, or on Instagram. Jason loves hearing from anyone who thinks it would be cool to connect, to be coached, or to be a guest on our show. email him at podcast at Jason frazell.com. Or DM him on Facebook and Instagram. And now, back to some a more amazing conversation on talking to cool people.

Jason Frazell: 18:42

Alright, Mike, we're back. And so what do we know about you so far? We know you're an adult who likes toys.

Mike Kim: 18:56

Watch videos on you get

Jason Frazell: 18:57

high and you and Neil deGrasse Tyson are good friends.

Mike Kim: 19:02

Yeah. Space videos. You can't dorable at dancing. Yep. Horrible

Jason Frazell: 19:06

dancing. And you've you've had a lot of Trent, you've had a lot of Trent. Speaking of transformation, you've had a lot of transformation in your life. You mentioned you were divorced. You mentioned you came from the church world. And I know like, we may want to talk about some may not but like what else do you want everybody listening to know about you?

Mike Kim: 19:24

Hmm. I would. I think what I would say is that I just been a good friend to people. That's what I want to be known as. You know that Mike was a good friend. I think if I die, there'll be a lot of stories shared about me. And I've just, I've just, dude, this guy said to me years ago, and I just it just stuck with me. We were having drinks at a marketing conference. Right? And I was speaking at that event, and so was he and we needed a lot of same people. And we finally sat down his name was Mark And we were just chatting, we had not really known each other, we knew a lot of same people. And he asked me a similar question like, Hey, what's going on with your life and blah, blah, I was like, Dude, I don't know, I should, I should probably dead. The way of living my life these last four or five years, like, I was a good boy in my 20s. And I caught up for all those years in just like a three year period, right? And he goes to me, he's like, No, you know, the way that I see life is that if the bar tab is always in your favor, the universe isn't gonna take you out. So you just keep buying drinks for people, and like running up the tab, and you pay the tab. Like, the universe is gonna bring good things back to you. And it was just a different way of saying, like, do good to people in a balance will always like even out for you. And, yeah, and so even before that, I feel like I've I've lived my life that way. I tried to be really generous. I'll spot people all the time when we go out. And it just makes for memories. I can't take any of this. I can't take any of the Transformers toys with me. I know that for sure.

Jason Frazell: 21:14

If you don't know that, for sure bike, that's, that's true.

Mike Kim: 21:17

It could materialize into the ether. And I can be wherever we go. And we all die. Wouldn't

Jason Frazell: 21:24

that be the joke? If the only thing you could take with you is the toys that you bought as an adult that you wanted as a child? That's like the one thing you actually could take with you into the next whatever it is,

Mike Kim: 21:33

I'd be like, Wow, really? This was okay. All right, you know. But yeah, that I think that's what I would want people to know is that I've just tried to be a good friend to people. And that has made my life infinitely more fulfilling and rich in every way.

Jason Frazell: 21:53

What makes a good friend?

Mike Kim: 21:57

Low Maintenance high quality. Yeah. I was thinking about this, like, couple months ago. Yeah. And I just, I just, I was like, thinking about my best friends. Like the friends you call when you have one phone call in jail? Yeah. Right. And I'm like, what is it about all these friends that have a lot? And I'm like, You know what it is? It's high quality, low maintenance. And that just covers it all? Yeah, high quality loan, which is covers it. All right. Yeah. And it's just like, hold space for people, let them be themselves get in their face when they're doing dumb crap, right, or living below the line for themselves. Earlier in 2022, I had three or four friends come through New York and they were all going through divorces or just been divorced. And they all came here and crashed in my place for like, a few days each. Like in consecutive weeks. It was like a rotating door. Right? It's a revolving door. And I spent like crazy money that month. My accountant was like, What are you doing? How do you spend like $18,000 in a month? I was like, Oh, we just held divorce parties for like bottle service. Yeah, yeah. All my friends that were coming through. And like, I'm like, Okay, that was fun. That was just, you know, but like, I was also like, Hey, I'm here, do whatever you want. We had like, really serious conversations. And then we just had a lot of fun. Right? And to me, just being a good friend means allowing people to be themselves. To be honest, that kind of tracks back to what I said a few minutes ago. And we have such very few people. People are very few folks like that in their lives. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's, that's tough. Right? Yeah, some

Jason Frazell: 23:43

of that popped in for me. And that is also a great type of people to do business with. I'm like, I'm that was running through my mind of who's my high quality low maintenance friends aren't I have quite a few as well, which is nice. And I was running through my list of clients that I love working with, which is most of them. I'm like, What do I love about working with them? Oh, like, yeah, they're really high quality. We have great conversations, they do the work. And then they're not high maintenance. Because as I'm sure you coach people to it, you fire your high maintenance clients, because they're not worth it, no matter what they're paying you. Yeah. And, and I think the other thing that I'm realizing too, is as you say that I think I'm just a little bit older than you as you get into your 40s you fire those as friends too. I mean, I have like people, I'm like, I know you're calling me I know you're going to ask me for something or you're going to need something. And you've never asked me what I like what I want to talk about or anything. And at some point that just becomes

Mike Kim: 24:37

it's one. Yeah, yes, Mike. It's one sided. And I've seen more couples even you know, we're at the age where more people we know are going to get divorced and married. Right and yeah, and I can see this now clearly. I'm like, oh, yeah, those two are not going to make it like unless something drastic changes on both sides. Like this is the balance sheet is not working here. You know, and So yeah, so,

Jason Frazell: 25:01

yeah, what um, what do you want to ask me that I can answer for everybody? I'm really scared. I'm not gonna lie. I'm scared in the best way possible

Mike Kim: 25:23

if you could do one thing over again from your past, what would it be?

Jason Frazell: 25:27

One thing over again from my past, good or

Mike Kim: 25:30

bad? Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 25:34

Oh, that's the actually, this feels low stakes. I'm gonna give you the low stakes answer that came up. And then I'm gonna think as I'm answering it, I wish I would have started playing guitar earlier. Like I wish I had. So I had. So I took three years of piano lessons. And I was just, I'm just not a piano kid. And, and now I play guitar. And I'm pretty decent. But I didn't start till I was 27. And I look at these like, these kids in like 1819. And they shred. Because as you know, this, I know you've got a you've got some nephews and kids like, got almost seven year old material. These kids, their brains are sponges for this stuff. You're like, Oh, here's how you do this. You do that and they practice and they get it. And now as an adult, I'm like, I feel decrepit. Sometimes I'm like, I think I could play that thing. So I would want to do that at it. Actually, the the the more, I guess, elevated answer to that, which relates to that, that you said, is get more like, really own my truth. I spent a lot I spent most of my corporate career like, I liked it. I liked the people. I thought I was kind of myself, but I wasn't really owning who I really was or my truth because I thought that's what I had to do. And in some ways, I think when you work at companies you do and similar to you now, like I give apps, but I more myself than I ever was before and it's just a lot more delightful. Here's my truth or see no more. And I think I spent a lot of time doing that or how that relates how that shows up is like about you all the time. That wasn't sales

Mike Kim: 27:40

nice Hey, your mic cut out real quick. I don't know what's going on today. Yeah, hold on. I don't know if it's on my end or on yours. Oh, I want to make sure you're good for your future interviews too. today. We see. Hopefully it's my air pods put there try talking one more time let's test an area test test on let me just change it on my Zoom. Maybe that's what it's Yeah. Test test one more time as test. Okay, cool.

Jason Frazell: 28:40

So I think it's on your side because I just switched in zoom is reading my microphone.

Mike Kim: 28:44

That's something's got to be up. Sorry. My bad. I heard everything is but yeah.

Jason Frazell: 28:50

Yeah, I think yeah. Great. All right. Awesome. Question, Mike. So let's see. What are you not passionate about? I'm like somebody like you. Like here's all the things I do like because usually ask people what they're passionate but I'll ask you. What do you not passionate about? Oh, man,

Mike Kim: 29:07

this okay. So like you said, there's, there's like a surface level answer I could give. Right. And then there's a deeper thing, right. I'm not passionate about boring stuff like budgets are spreadsheets. I've never met a spreadsheet I liked. I know I have to because I'm in business. And so I have somebody who helps me with all that stuff. I'm just not passionate about people just kind of following the flow because that's what they have been taught or conditioned to believe. And I don't judge them for I'm just like you said I'm just not passionate about it. I am seeing my friends turn into their parents before my very eyes. This is different because a lot Out of my friend's parents were immigrants. Hmm, they come here to New Jersey or the New York City area with nothing to their name, work their ass off. They'd be like chemists like university professors, but their credentials wouldn't carry over. So they would open a dry cleaners. Yeah. And they like just hustle and like, like, it's a very humble life, right and not be able to speak English. And they live in, you know, do everything, they can go into major debt to live in this town so that their kids could go to a good public school, and their kids go to a great college, get a job in finance in New York and come back literally to the same town. And really, all they have is a bigger house than they did when they were growing up. Again, I don't judge but I'm like, I don't want to do that. Like I please. You know, I don't I don't want to do that. And I get it. Because you know, I don't have kids. And no one who does not have kids will ever understand what it's like to be parent, I realized that, but I've seen my nephews grow up. I've been in their lives. I know how hard parenthood can be. I see how hard it is on my friends. But there's got to be something deeper than just go in and going through the motions. And, and you've lived in this area. It is not easy to be part of the rat race here. It's now$18 To cross the George Washington Bridge to go into $18 in dollars. Just think about that. $100 a week. $400 a month, just the drivers city going to the city. Yeah, don't even park we're not talking parking Gosh. And like people think this is okay. Like they're like, oh, okay, this is this is what it is, right? And I'm just like, how does that make any sense? You know, like, Ah, so I'm not I'm not very, I'm passionate about the opposite of it, which is to like, kind of help people wake up and be like, Hey, you're more valuable than you think you are? And if that's what they want to do, that's totally cool. Look, we need people in every area of society to keep making it work. But that kind of ideology that kind of like, sort of let's just like live with the snooze button. On the whole time. Like it just I It doesn't sit well with me. Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 32:17

Do you? Do you recognize that in yourself in your past self or even sometimes today where you feel like you're in that mode?

Mike Kim: 32:25

No, I think I've always been a little bit unconventional. And this probably harkens back to you know, our personality type is pretty similar. I remember like when I would go into a corporate job. And I, my first real corporate job was with Mellon Chase, they've now dissolved, but they were like kind of an investment firm and all that kind of stuff. And I was that's where I learned a little bit of telemarketing and calling clients and blah, blah, blah. And I'm in there. We had a two week training, I passed the test all that stuff. And we're like, a month and I'm like, I would literally rather die than do this. I would I'm serious. I'm gonna die one day. I mean, my, my cubicle? Yeah, I mean, it was just, I could not stomach it. Yeah. And that's just me, it was just me. Like, I'm not a typical Korean kid from New Jersey, like, you're not you're supposed to go to a good college, I went to a state school. You're supposed to become a lawyer or a doctor, like, No, you do not want me operating on you. Or handling your legal case, you know. And then I go into music, and then I leave that church world, even though I was good at the music part of it, I left it probably while I was at the top or, you know, I'm not sure to directory to keep on growing. And I left it behind. And then I have a hard time explaining what I do to people use it. You should hear the conversations I have on dates, dude. Like they were like, so wait, what? What do you do for a living? And I'm like, Well, I'm an I'm an online educator of marketing and a coach and like your what sport? Oh, no, no, it's not like that. It's business. Like, where do you go to business school? And no, I didn't go to business school. And since I wrote the book last year has become way easier. I just say I'm the author. What do you write about? My Oh, marketing and blah, blah, blah. And so I feel like I've always been like a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. Yeah. Right. And it's okay. You know, it's okay. I embrace it.

Jason Frazell: 34:29

Yeah. And all that resonates for me, except I'm never gonna write a book because I hate writing.

Mike Kim: 34:36

People like me, no, you could hire people like me to write it, too, you know, so

Jason Frazell: 34:40

yeah, exactly. No, it's, it's it's so interesting. When you're talking about that, a lot of times, I do a lot of networking. The most of the people I network with start to slow down, but a lot of the networking is, you know, more traditional roles. And they're like, so what do you do? And I'm like, Well, yeah, this weekend. going to speak somewhere and then I'm going to facilitate a group. And they're like, they don't even know what most of these things mean, right? Because you'd like people that have like more much more traditional jobs. So maybe I do need to have something like, I'm a podcast that I'm people like, Well, anybody could be a podcaster.

Mike Kim: 35:13

Yes. See, that's the downside of it. Oh, I'm a blogger and blogger. Like girls. Wait, this is not a good guy to date. You know? It's just funny how it all works. Yeah,

Jason Frazell: 35:26

that's funny. So So Mike, what's the thing that you're most proud of? Besides your transformers?

Mike Kim: 35:33

Hmm. I am most proud of making something of myself and picking myself up during and after the divorce. That is absolutely hands down like book. Yeah, sure. Great. graduating college. Sure. Great. But that is hands down the hardest thing I've never done. And while I don't wish it happened, it made me who I am today. So I embrace it. It was like, the traumas, like gone. You know, that's why, you know, in all seriousness, I've done so many of the psychedelic journeys, and they're really helped. It was transformational. Yeah. But when I look back on it, now that I'm healthier, I'm like, gosh, there was so much that was unhealthy about that dynamic. And then I had to, like, really forgive myself. Yeah. I thought, yeah, I had to forgive her. But then once I got healthier, I was like, why didn't you like, why did you let this happen? Or why didn't you just say something? And we had like, a very big age gap when we got married, so I got married when I was 27. She was 20. Now when you're in that age, seven years is an eternity. That's a lot. Yeah, right now, you know, 40 and 33, or 47? And 40. No big deal, right? Yeah. But at that time, like, I was just like, okay, she's Wait, she was in college when we got married. So I was like, No, I should just kind of understand, be more understanding, be more lenient, you know. She's really young. And then that went on for 1012 years. Yeah. And so then I was just like, my counselors would talk to me and be like, Hey, you do this, or you do that. And we want you to read this. And we want you to read that about codependency and, and et cetera, et cetera. And it was just like, oh, Frick, a lot of this is, is on me, even though I didn't do the harm to myself directly. But I let a lot of it happen. And that was, that was really hard. That was hard. But that's what I'm most proud of. And, I mean, it's, it's kind of dangerous, man, I can see through things now. So much more quickly. I can see things 10 miles on, I mean, you've been married a while, like it just like. So you know, like, they're just things that he like. So that's what I'm most proud of. I see a lot of people kind of going through that I had mentioned before, like people who come through here in Jersey and New York at the start of the year. And I think they saw like my journey and the my friends saw how I handled it and how he started to come out on the other side. It's been over four years now. And so I'm very proud of that. And I can actually share about it from a place of healing and wholeness. So, I'm very proud of that variable.

Jason Frazell: 38:19

Yeah, my axon, say, you know, congrats on doing that work, because some people never get over that. So congratulations. So now let's now as we're talking about, you know, a little bit of therapeutic stuff, let's go a little bit deeper and find out something that Mike Kim is afraid might actually be true about him. And I'm not going to accept some sort of like, Yeah, I know this is true about me. I'm gonna want to see what you're actually afraid might be true

Mike Kim: 38:42

about you. That I'm a narcissist.

Jason Frazell: 38:46

That's a good one. Yeah.

Mike Kim: 38:48

Now everyone will tell me I'm not a narcissist. Yeah, that's what people tell narcissists. You know, and it gets this really heavy space, you know, and I had to study a lot of that stuff in counseling. Because, you know, I'm not saying anything bad about anybody else. But my, I had two therapists. And they were giving me books to read on this, and they're like, you're a caretaker. And your partner may be, you know, have these inclinations. And then of course, what happens? You know, for caretakers, you're just like, oh, wait, I'm saying this about her. But what if that's true of me? And is this weird? Yeah, cycle, right. I'm pretty sure I'm not. They would say they would say no narcissist, like never admit they're wrong. I was like, oh, okay, that sounds kind of familiar. You know. So I'm like, I think I'm good, but it's just a weird, heady place. I think, Jason that comes from a lot from like, the church day is like, sure. It was almost like pride was the worst attribute you could have. Oh, yeah. You know, and it's, like, weird. How that yeah,

Jason Frazell: 39:56

like you can't possibly own your greatness or like tell anybody what you're good at that would be, you know, it's like, what is it a pride cometh before the fall? That's like a very popular thing. I'm actually not surprised by your answer. I'll tell you why. Because this question for people that I know when I ask it, and by the way, it's like, the reason it's phrases might actually be true, because it might not actually be true. It's like the thing that like, you have, it makes a lot of sense that you're one of your core values as being a good friend. Because that's about other people. So you put a lot of energy externally, because you know, this, you've done the counseling work. We the thing, we're afraid that's true about us, we will overcome, not overcompensate will, will show up in the world and compensate for it. And every single guest I've had on has something and it was like, well, it makes a lot of sense. I'll ask some people, Hey, how do you compensate for that? If you're like, why don't I know if I do? I'm like, Huh? You do. But I'll give you an example for me. Like, what I'm afraid what I'm afraid might actually be true of me is that I'm lazy. So what do I do? I got a lot going on. I know that that's, but I know that that's, that's, I mean, and I love what I do. So it's great. But I also know that that is a way to overcompensate sometimes for the thing, so thanks for being honest. And and what I hear people go oh, like I'm afraid of might be a narcissist. I mean, we're humans, like we're built to take care of ourselves at the end of the day. Yeah. And you know, what's funny about that, like with narcissism is I haven't studied a lot of it, but I've had some clients that have come through the like, Oh, like that thick therapeutic stuff. Their mom was like a narcissist is that a lot of the things that in that realm actually just feeds right back into it. Like you said, it's like, I was talking about this with a client of mine. Her his mother was a narcissist, and we weren't doing therapy, but she was like, Yeah, and like, I became codependent. And so she fulfilled she filled up my life with what she wanted for me. And I let her because I was a kid. I didn't know any better. She's like, and now I'm 55. And I still do the same thing. Yeah, yeah. And it's trippy. It is trippy man. It's like, and I'll tell you what, it becomes very trippy. When you have young children like I do. And you're like, oh, wait a second. What am I potentially putting into their sphere? That's gonna have them go to therapy. So like, last thing, I'll say, Here's my buddy, Sean. He's his kids are grown now. Great, great family. Growing up, he would tell his kids he'd be like, they'd come and complain, he'd be like, here's $1 Put in your therapy job. And you're 18 I'll give it to you. And the therapists. They had pretty big jars.

Mike Kim: 42:38

Yeah, I mean, what I love in all seriousness about where society's going with a lot of in social media is helped. Yeah, it really has. It's, it's allowed these conversations to become mainstream. You know, and yeah, we make fun of people who are like, kind of cream puffs and like, you know, come on, you play for the New York Yankees, like, it's literally your job to perform under pressure. Stop crying that, you know, the Browns are booing you, right? I get that piece. But as a whole, I think it's really good that we're talking about emotional health. Yeah. And we need it. You know, social media is a double edged sword. I can't imagine growing up with with this as a kid, you know, in this world, like, oh my gosh, right. So like, I love that about what podcasts and new media have done. For for the world. But yeah, we all need it. We all need it. You can have the best parents in the world. And you'll you know, you'll still need it. Of course, you know, so yeah, yeah.

Jason Frazell: 43:37

Big fan. So Michael, we wrap up here today, how do you see the world?

Mike Kim: 43:42

I see the world as now. I have this qualify with this all by saying, I was born in a first world country. Right? Like all that, all that jazz, right? And I don't forget that. But I see the world as an abundant and beautiful place. And human beings are really good at screwing each other over. You know, I was watching another YouTube video. This one wasn't about space. I zoned out watching this guy's vlog. And he works on a tanker, like an oil tanker and just blogged about this, like 60 day journey. And they were sailing from like, you know, Newark, you know, Elizabeth, New Jersey to like Portugal. And he's like filming it. And you can tell it's Portugal. It's just called Portugal because human beings have said this is Portugal. It's just land. Yeah. And you're just like when you see the world that way or when I like in the plane and looking out the window and you just see land here like this is just beautiful. We have created these cultures and societies that sometimes do do a lot of harm to us. Yep. And and that's sad, but I see the world as as a beauty for a place to be enjoyed and to be lived in and to be experienced,

Jason Frazell: 45:04

beautiful, I'm with you on that. So let me I'm just going to be your hype man here. So everybody check out Mike's book. If you are a, I've read it. Actually I listened to it. As you can tell Mike has a nice voice. It's it's a great book if you're a personal I mean, it's written if you're a personal brand, but it's actually got great marketing content if you're a marketer of any type, marketing sales. Go check it out. You can get it anywhere. Amazon is called You Are the brand. It's got a cool black and orange color to it looks really good. Mike, where else can people connect with you?

Mike Kim: 45:40

Instagram is the best at Mike Kim does the social media network on the most and if you do want want to do more professional stuff just on LinkedIn. Mike Kim TV. Yeah, Mike Kim

Jason Frazell: 45:51

TV. It's I always found that funny that my chem TV because I believe in Charlie in the Chocolate Factory. It's his name is Mike TV. Is that really like? Who like yeah, he like gets small. He was obsessed with TV. And also, if you follow Mike on IG, you might get a glimpse of dancing sometime. Potentially. It's possible us you know, it's fun. Yeah, who knows? We'll see. We'll see. So my last question for you, my friend or not even a question just a request, leave us with some words of wisdom that would fit on a post it note for the older folks who know what that is or for the younger folks and iG IG feed, not the text.

Mike Kim: 46:31

I say this a lot. Life is short. But the longest thing we ever do. So eat great foods, spend more time with your loved ones and never pass up an adventure.

Jason Frazell: 46:42

I love that life is short, but it's the longest thing we do. That's so good. Mike, I'm glad we finally made this happen. Yeah, thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it. Keep doing what you're doing and be an inspiration to all those around you. And you know, even to those I think maybe your transformers is a minor way to get your narcissistic tendencies, which is perfect. Doesn't hurt anybody else at all. And absolutely. And I will see you again soon,

Mike Kim: 47:06

my friend. Talk soon, man. See ya. Bye.

Unknown: 47:11

Thanks for listening to another episode of talking to cool people with Jason for Zell. If you enjoyed today's episode, please tell your friends. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook and give us a shout out or take a moment to leave a review on iTunes. If something from today's episode pique your interest and you'd like to connect, email us at podcast at Jason for zell.com. We love hearing from our listeners because you're cool people too.