Talking to Cool People w/ Jason Frazell

Arel Moodie - Speaker, Entrepreneur, Disney+ Host

November 02, 2022 Season 3 Episode 42
Talking to Cool People w/ Jason Frazell
Arel Moodie - Speaker, Entrepreneur, Disney+ Host
Show Notes Transcript

Arel educates us on the concept of adult development theory and how it's not widely talked about, shares his journey of moving from a solely service based business to being a technology co-founder and what it was like to get selected to be a host on Disney+ and the limiting beliefs they came up when it happened.

"When you can focus your time on making the unconscious conscious, then you'll actually be able to control what you do."

Please provide us feedback on the episode using this link and thank you!

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Arel Moodie is a best-selling author and executive coach who has spoken to over 750,000 people throughout 48 states and 5 countries. Arel is a speaker, entrepreneur, bestselling author, and “human development investigator” who has extensively studied the intricacies of human dynamics and relationships. Arel has been invited to speak at the White House twice, the TEDx stage three times and has been featured in The New York Times, Inc. Magazine, Essence, USA Today, Forbes, Black Enterprise, Huffington Post, and has been a contributor to the television program The Doctors. His podcast, has reached millions of listeners throughout 178 countries and was the Number 1 career podcast on Apple Podcasts.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/arelmoodie/
http://www.arelmoodie.com

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Jason Frazell:

My guest on the podcast today I'm really excited about this one, we were just catching up. It's a rel moody. REL is a speaker, professional speaker and adult development theory. He's a co founder of a super cool software as a service platform that I used called, that I use called taka dot talking tack here, and then he's also a TV co host, which we're going to talk about. And most importantly, he's a super dad. And I am saying this. He's a very humble, very humble guy. I'm saying you're super dad based when he told me about your son's multiple birthday parties, which is are my kids get older? I'm learning that that's thing. And I don't remember having multiple birthday parties as a kid, but I'm sure I did. But I was so glad to have you on. How are you today?

Arel Moodie:

Well, my favorite part of how this interview started is now I can quote the fact that a media outlet has called me super dad. So when Mike started questioning how great of a data am I was like, Listen, I've got the quote. Jason called me Super Dad, it's official, there's nothing we can do about it at this point. It's just fact it's,

Jason Frazell:

I will send you this video clip and you just pull it up on your phone and show it to them. Because you have kids that like are sassy right there. They're in a little bit of a SASS age.

Arel Moodie:

Yeah, that they're that preteen, you know, my oldest is turning 10. And my youngest is seven. So he's starting to get into that interesting humor. That's a little bit more like in your face humor versus by your side. So yeah, always got to always got to be able to show that loves you. And he's a super dad. It's official.

Jason Frazell:

Dad, it loves you. And he's a super dad. All right, well, we're gonna get into we got a lot to talk about today. So let's kick this off with talking about. And my first question for you is something that you nerd out about. So what do you nerd out about?

Arel Moodie:

Yeah, you know, one of the wonderful things about I think being a professional speaker is that what you nerd out about is typically what you get to speak about. Which is really, yeah, like, it's like, I'm gonna really learn everything I can about this subject, and then I get the opportunity to get paid to talk about it. So for me, my biggest nerd out right now is adult development theory, which is this incredible research that shows that adults pass through these predictable and sequential stages of maturity throughout our lives. And what I think is most fascinating, a wide nerd out about it, is most people have never heard of it. But it's all of these independent researchers that say, regardless of where you're born, your country of origin, your gender, the language you speak, these are the stages, they are the same. And they have these different characteristics, fears, strengths. And I think what is so fascinating to me about it, is that once you understand these stages, you can actually understand where most conflict comes from most frustrations come from, and personally, what I think is super exciting about it is stages can evolve. Now, the reason why the, the changing is so important, is because when we look at bettering ourselves, research shows, typically your personality doesn't change, it's possible. But typically your personality is your personality, your generation is your generation, your generation doesn't change. So trying to change those things are probably some of the most difficult things if you want to improve, but you can change the way you process and make meaning of the world. And I think this is the area where large individual change can come from. So I read about it, I research it, I talk to some of the most brilliant people in the world about it. And the funny thing is, it's like one of those things that there's not many people who also talk about it. So it's like, yeah, I have to seek them out and find them.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, it's, it's super cool. It's interesting, because child development theory is very common language least in the United States a lot. Most parents will know what that means. It gets talked about in schools can read about it, but I don't know that I've ever heard the term adult development theory in that

Arel Moodie:

way. Well, that's exactly right. Right. So like child development theory, we all know, like, oh, a six month old doesn't have. So the technical term is object permanence. So if I put my hands in front of my eyes and go Peekaboo, the kid thinks you've disappeared. It's the coolest thing in the world. And so what happens for very long time is that researchers believed that around 21 We stopped developing. So the reason why it's such a huge emphasis on education was put from, you know, cradle to 21 is because after that our belief was you spend the rest of your life getting the most out of what you got from zero to 21. And once the researcher says, no, no, that doesn't stop at 21 Like it continues throughout your adult life. I think it's absolutely game changing, but not enough attention or not enough. Knowledge is about it. And I kind of have this personal like goal. if you will to simplify because it's very complex, we try to simplify it as best I can, but also make it available to as many people as possible.

Jason Frazell:

It's interesting. Yeah, I know we're gonna, we're gonna dig into this a lot more in this episode for sure. Because this is, this is your wheelhouse. So let's talk about something on a, on a personal level, something that is inside of your comfort zone, something that, like, Listen, I'm totally down to do that. And you know, for a fact that there are people that are like, Hell, no, I'm not doing that thing, or I am so uncomfortable doing it. And as I do with all the speakers, I have my show because I have a lot of speakers. I'm taking public speaking right off the table, because it's just way too easy. That would just be that would just be a gimme

Arel Moodie:

that, you know that that is the easiest one to go to. I think the second thing is being willing to start a conversation with strangers. I'm very comfortable doing it. I enjoy doing it. And I'm not talking about like stabbing someone in the middle of the street and just chit chatting them your marker to which isn't always that easy. No, it's not. It's probably like pulling teeth from a crocodile or speaking to in New York and in the streets like same skill set, right? Yeah. But if you put me in an environment where we're at an event or where somewhere my comfortability now, not always, by any means but my comfortability now to engage and start a conversation with anyone is is pretty high. And I think that for most people, that's probably what they are most uncomfortable with at large events or networking events.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah. I really had a question for you, as this relates to extraversion and introversion and adult development theory. Yes, I've had a couple people I've had one episode that was purely on extraversion introversion, my friend, Katarina, she is relates is quite an introvert and I am a complete extrovert, at least in Myers Briggs. And that's pretty accurate. Yeah, well, first of all, how do you how like, have you taken Myers Briggs? Or do you know, where do you sit on the on the ENI scale?

Arel Moodie:

Yeah, so I've not taken the Myers Briggs I probably should on the personality side, but I'm actually super curious how did she define introvert? How did she define extrovert

Jason Frazell:

she gets in the way that Myers Briggs does is how do you source your energy? So do you source your energy from others? Or do you source and recharge being with yourself?

Arel Moodie:

That's that's the key you know, I think that and I'm so glad that that's where it went? Because I think the the misconception which I'm sure you've covered very deeply so if you're listening to this, please watch that episode. Because yeah, the biggest misconception about introverted extrovert is that an introvert is not outgoing. extrovert is not like can be alone. That's it's not the truth at all. So for me, I definitely would would probably scale towards the extrovert, like probably textbook.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, that well, I'm thinking about this because what's in your comfort zone is in mind to like a roomful of people, I don't know is actually my playground for me. I really, I just love people. So that's, that's something that's in my comfort zone, too. I think if I knew one or two people, that's like my ultimate. That's my ultimate environment, recommend connect with a couple of people I know, like, Hey, man, we haven't met in person. And then we, we build conversations, but I do know, and I just had my friends Robert and Kaylee on a bit ago, this was something that we I asked both of them, that is not Roberts thing. He does not like being in rooms full of people and Kaylee's like I like to make friends in the Starbucks line. And like, yeah. Yeah. So flip, flip that question, what's something that's outside of your comfort zone that you know, other people are into? Or that easily will do?

Arel Moodie:

Yeah, so for me, it is anything that deals with structure. In terms of spreadsheets. You know, there are some people that I work with, like one of my partners with with talking about my software tool, her name is pokin. Her ability to like have a meeting, like she'll have this meeting, and then she'll summarize the whole meeting. And then she'll put them into this organized structure, whether it's a spreadsheet or an air table, or thing, and structure. Here's what we talked about, here's what needs to happen from this conversation. Here's the biggest takeaways, and then provide like the link for like the full interview, if we'd be interested, and that is just so far outside my natural comfort zone. Yeah, like, if I have this conversation, I'm like, man, it was really great conversation. Oh, could you send me a summary and organize it and then please, and I was like, I there's nothing about that. That I've naturally

Jason Frazell:

and you and I are very, very similar. Now like I I'm going to go to another personality assessment. Have you ever taken disc?

Arel Moodie:

I'm familiar with disc. I've not taken disc either. Yeah.

Jason Frazell:

So you're probably an an eye or a D on disc and the C is called conscientiousness. It's more of the people that have more of it. And they're like, the whole philosophy is disk is it's all good. We need all types of people and it's really good to work on teams with different types of people but to see is like the more detail or oriented person, they'd like to know the how they like to, like, have a lot of the things recorded. And I'm like just absolutely the opposite.

Arel Moodie:

Yeah. You know, yeah, in, in. So in stage theory and adult development theory there's one of the stages is. So there's like three things, there's four stages that I spend most of my time educating people with, because that's where 85% of the population lives, right. So the first stage is called self centric. The second is group centric. The third is skill centric. And then the fourth is called self authoring. Depending on who you ask, people will call it different things. There's also a numerical scale 223334, that kind of stuff. But I like to use those terms because they're easier. I am large within the group centric skill set, one of those skill sets is being able to keep people together. So one of the skills that I believe that I've developed over time is not only that comfortability of speaking to people, but I'm really good at figuring out how to glue people together, you know, so like, if I'm noticing this person is not communicating with this person, I can do a pretty decent job of saying, Well, what is this person really trying to say? What is this person really trying to say, and glue those people together? So I've always found that my skill set was more on the human emotion side, and very low on the detail oriented structure, systematic, and building myself to be around people who have those skills has been, I used to beat myself up because I'm like, How come I can't do all that stuff like them, and then I dis owned my own skill set. And I think as I get older, I start realizing the importance for all folks to own their skill set and like be okay with the fact that there's things that other people will be very successful at that you're not. And that's hard for people, I think, like us who like to get better and constantly evolve.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, man, I had no idea we have did not plan this. But I have to relate this to yet another assessment, Clifton Strengths. Yeah, and this is the last I'm gonna bring this up in this episode, because I know I'm getting annoying. But StrengthsFinder 2.0 Clifton Strengths, there's a strength, it's called include, or it's my number 10, which can is a, I'm guessing that might be in your top five. And that's what it is. It's the superpower of bringing disparate people together with potentially disparate messages. And being able to bring together the commonality, it doesn't mean you all have to get along, but it means that you are, it means you have an active, what it basically means you have a pretty high EQ, for relating to people where they're at and what they're bringing, as opposed to like, needing to know the specific details or like they need to tell you enough. So you can feel the ache, you can do that. It's just like a natural ability.

Arel Moodie:

Yeah, and one of the things I will say what I love about bringing up assessments, like what you're bringing up is that what we do in, in general, as humans is, whatever is our strength is like a fish in water, it's no big deal. We become very aware of where we suck, because we see someone else excelling in it. And then that becomes a reflection, a mirror of what we stink at. So the reason why these types of assessments I think, are so valuable. And I'm really glad you're bringing up because one, it's it's encouraging me to probably like take someone because I have it. And there's a bunch of I've been wanting, I've been like tons I've been wanting to write. But then also also I think this is the big thing is you start realizing that even though you're not naturally good at something, the things that you are naturally good at you probably will diminish, because it's not hard. And we think that to be good, it must be hard. Yeah, I mean, that's not true.

Jason Frazell:

Now, the last thing I'll say on this is regarding Clifton Strengths is when I do this work with clients, I say, you can just think of this as a list of energy. You think of your top five, it's like, like you said, fish and water the things at the bottom. And people go well, should I try and work on the things near the bottom, and like you can but it's gonna be exhausting. Versus lean into your stuff at the top. Because for you, like you have a co founder that probably has a different list of strengths, you get to play off of each other you don't. And if you're a solopreneur business or something, you just find you hire people that can help you with these things. Man, I had no idea the conversation is gonna go here, and I'm loving it. And we're gonna go to some speaking stuff here. So you are a professional speaker. So I'm always really curious to hear the answer to this question for people that speak for living. I'll give you five minutes, only five minutes, and you get to deliver a speech and all of us like the whole world gets to hear it from you. What is it that you would talk about with us and what would you want us to do at the end? Yeah,

Arel Moodie:

great question. So I think the work that I do as as like within adult development theory, if I can kind of summarize it, to what I think would be that kind of Billboard statement to the world is there is always, always a win win. If we look for it, and not a compromised Win win, I think there's always a way for you to 100% win and me to 100% win, we just have to understand why we will get in the way of that. And typically we get in the way of that is because the way that I process the world, if it's different than how you process the world, then you go, well, it's got to be this way for me to be happy, and you the other person goes, No, it has to be this complete opposite way. And in reality, if you get to the core of it, there is actually something we both one. Now, it's not always apparent, it's not always easy. The more skilled you are in understanding yourself and having self awareness, the easier it is to get down to what you truly want. But I think that it's 100% possible. And I think what I want people to do after that message, is when they look at conflicts with people, and they look at challenges with people, because they're always available and present, is if you actually become more self aware, right. And I think that's what stage theory allows us to do become more self aware. And we believe there's always a win win, then you can actually start breaking apart all of the frustrations and challenges and angers that may create the friction points of this thing called life and have a much more beautiful existence. If we look for it. And if we accept it to be true, because there are many folks, which goes to an earlier stage, which is a self centric philosophy is that the world is zero sum, I win, you lose, you win, I lose out to the way the world is, you can break that and move to the wind when I believe it's possible and it can be found,

Jason Frazell:

man. Yeah, somebody asked me this one time, on this pod, somebody decided to like flip the script on me. And they're like, and they decided to try and play host. And it was actually a lot of fun. And mine was actually similar. And I really relate to that URL, because I used to be in sales. And in sales, I really had a pretty binary mindset, you either won the sale of your loss of sale. And when you win a sale, you make money or you don't want to sale, you don't make money, and then you either fight it, and then you either hit your quota, and you make your money or you don't hit your quota, and you get fired and you're looking for the next job. And it's like, I have a similar I don't know if it would be my five minutes. But I really have through my I guess adult development theory and don't know where this fits in, if really had to work on life is pretty gray. And it's not ones and zeros most of the time. Correct. And when you do that, and you realize there can be win wins. That is it's a lot more fun existence.

Arel Moodie:

It is. And when we when we start earlier in our journey of developing our maturity as an adult, it most all of us will start with that binary thinking that's kind of that's like level one, right?

Jason Frazell:

That's the education system. And it's your pass or you

Arel Moodie:

fail, like and it's very easy to determine winners and losers, right? Yeah, in a world of black and white, it's very easy to go gay or gay in a world of gray. It starts becoming Well, are you successful? It's like, well, in a world of black and white, it's do you have the house, the kids the car is the wife the you know, the husband that you know, check, check, check. So it's a very easy to size this. But in the world of gray, which where you've kind of, you know, developed into? Well, now it's not as easy to make sir. It's like, well, that guy makes 75 grand, but his kids actually like him and love him. spouse wants to be around him. And he has a community that cares about him, you start going well, maybe that's the win, right? Well, maybe it's not in the other things. And so I think what happens when you develop into the world of gray is that you start realizing how nuanced how incredibly nuanced the world actually is. And that nuance, I believe, will create more opportunity for happiness. Because when it's black and white, it's either you do or you don't. And that would be a very, very scary world to to actually live in.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, awesome conversation so far. We'll take a very brief commercial break. We'll be right back after this.

Unknown:

The talking to cool people podcast is brought to you by Jason for sell coaching. Jason works with amazing people who are looking to find and develop their passion and purpose and create their journey to wherever it is they want to go. Check us out at Jason frazell.com Facebook or on Instagram. Jason loves hearing from anyone who thinks it would be cool to connect, to be coached, or to be a guest on our show. email him at podcast at Jason frazell.com or DM him on Facebook and Instagram. And now back to some a more amazing conversation on talking to cool people.

Jason Frazell:

And we're back and those are our professional sound effects for all of you listening between Terrell and I amazing artifacts, that's the sound of us going to commercial. And now we're back. Like, I don't know that anybody's ever done that before, I might have to add that as a sound pad on my processor and just like each part, go to commercial break.

Arel Moodie:

Everyone has to create their own special sound effects. However, boy,

Jason Frazell:

that should be my new thing. When I'm prepping guests, I should say, alright, you need to come up with your own version of when we come back from the commercial, what sound are you going to make? I can imagine something like s would be like love that. And some would be like, What the heck is it always always inspiring. This is first season for the show coming out. Starting in January, we'll we'll we're going to add in some new things. And this is this is the main value to the audience's get to hear these really cool sound effects.

Arel Moodie:

If that was the only contribution I made, I felt like our

Jason Frazell:

time that's it, I mean, this, this is probably the major output of this episode, just to be totally transparent with you. So around what else? Do you want the What else do you want us all to know about you?

Arel Moodie:

You know, one of the things that I think is really fascinating that's been happening for me is kind of a transition of where I've spent a large majority of my life in the kind of service oriented space, right, whether it's been speaking or coaching or something like that. And when you move into developing a software tool, it's a completely different philosophical approach. I think there's a lot you can take from what you've done in terms of how you sell how you build, how you market, how you grow. But it's a very different approach. That's been very fascinating for me. And I'd love love, love to, if the time allows, it does talk about what's shown up for me, because I think for people who want to start productizing, their service or their business, that approach is going to be really fascinating. Well, let's,

Jason Frazell:

let's take um, we do have the time. Let's also take a couple of minutes and talk about. So you've shared with us what you what you speak on the main topic that you speak on, let's spend a couple minutes on what talk about is because I know it, I use it. And like the genesis of that is going to become very apparent, but let's set the context for people to know how you've been inspired to do this with your co founder. And then from there, let's talk about what you've learned, as well as now, like I was saying this earlier. To me, what you what you're doing is you're expanding, right, you're not necessarily shifting or moving away from one thing away into something else, you're expanding what you're doing. And it's in two different, quite frankly, two different business models. So give us a Yeah, give us a couple minutes on the genesis behind talk about what it is what it does, what the value is, and then we'll go into the, like the

Arel Moodie:

Yeah, you know, as as professional speakers, you know, one of the things that we always want to do is book more speaking engagements. That's kind of like the name of the business side, right. So we have a message paid, paid, paid speaking engagements, right, because that's, that's that's the professional part, by the way.

Jason Frazell:

And so the public snapshot makes you a business. Yes, professional speaker means you get paid to speak.

Arel Moodie:

That's the distinction public speaker, professional speaker two different like, like, like verticals, right? Yeah. So we want to get more paid and want to do that, right? Because that's how we move the needle. However, in our world, how do you prove to someone who maybe hasn't booked you Now mind you, if you're Gary Vee, or if you're Simon Sinek, you're playing in a totally different ballgame. But for content experts like myself, where I'm not really a celebrity, in any shape, form of fashion, how do I one make folks trust me that they can book me and know that booking me will be a great decision? Where do I create that confidence? Now, in the traditional way that I've taught and been known to do it, my whole life is, you know, there's basic things you do website, speaker, demo, video, pictures, testimonials you put on your website, and then people in your audience who've heard you speak who come up to you and say, Oh, my gosh, can you come speak at our event? Like that's kind of how you build that level of trust or a trusted referral. And one of the things that happened is my one of my co founders has two co founders, one is a Pokemon. One is Jared Pocan is the product person. So I was helped coaching her, because she was interested in speaking, she had just exited from a very, very successful app that she had over, you know, 35 million downloads for was able to get purchased by a publicly traded company. And she wanted to do more speaking. So I started breaking down and telling her, here's how you do this. Here's how to do that. And she's like, Well, why don't you do it this way? And then my answer started being like the correct answer. Well, that's the way we've always done it. That's the way we've done it. Yeah, that's the way it's always been. And you know, she's like, well, what if there was a better way? And I was like, Tell me more. Right?

Jason Frazell:

You're like Spoken like a true tech entrepreneur? What if there was, this is where all the great stories start.

Arel Moodie:

Whenever someone says, this is the way we've always done it. That's, I think, a brilliant man. I do think Pokken is brilliant is is well, why does it have to be so what we realized is, through our we did a lot of interviews, just talking event planners trying to understand how they make decisions. And one of the biggest things we uncovered, is that event planners Don't trust your website, you're supposed to put the most highly edited video that can make because event planners have had tons of times where they booked the speaker that they really believed based on the video and the pictures would be amazing. And they weren't. And it's like, what? How would you know if they actually weren't good? And then we thought, like, Okay, well, if you go to Amazon, and you want to purchase anything, once you decide you want to get the thing, well, what's the very first thing that you look for? The reviews? What are actual real people saying that's not the manipulated? Manifest copies? Yeah, Trustpilot, Google reviews, all these things. But that doesn't exist within our world. So what if we can have speakers who are really good, showcase that they're good through data. So the whole premise of talking about is twofold. The first is, let's allow speakers to easily gain data on how effective their talks are from their audience, unfiltered and real, that they can present in a very visually graphically beautiful way. So that they can show one to the person who books you You did a good job looking at the feedback, and then to the future people who want to book you, but I could fake one or two, but I can't fake a whole litany of feedback reports that are unedited from a third party source that I do a good job. So it allows people to trust. The second is to that part that I had alluded to that someone comes up to you and gives you their card. The challenge is in an in person speaking engagement, if you actually do a good job, you should have a rush of people come up to you afterwards. And if a rush of people comes up to you, how many people really want to sit around and wait until that crowd diminishes. And odds are people who are very decision making oriented, probably aren't going to sit around forever. So you might lose a lot. And then in the virtual world, soon as someone hits the end on a zoom, or you know, whatever is the virtual platform, there is no rush, there is no crowd, there is no conversation. So what if we in that survey could allow people who do want to book you to raise their hand identify themselves, as yes, we should have a conversation, even have the ability to book a meeting. But if they're not interested, they wouldn't get any of those questions. So it doesn't feel uncomfortable. So that's what talk about does. And then it allows me as a speaker to objectively show how effective I am based on audience feedback, and to gain more opportunities every single time I speak. And it was that that's kind of it. And it's like the thing I wish that existed for me, I get to be part of the incredible team that gets to build it.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, just and this is maybe it's a commercial for talk about because I like I said I am a user of it. We met through a mutual friend and sent it I use it at a speaking gig. It was freaking awesome. I gave him so useful to have that list. And I think I told you just a small story, just a tiny story about it. We had. So what it does is it it like gives you a percentage of people that like loved it or liked it. And we had one person who said they didn't like it. And then that same person and you don't know who that person is, right? So it's anonymous, that one person came up and it was a woman she's like, Oh my god, I'm so sorry, I hit the wrong button is away and go bad. Like, I'd love the speech was so good. But she's felt like so bad. I'm like, It's okay that I really appreciate you coming up. I'm really glad that made an impact on you. And you have some thing but it was like it was like it really cute because she was like so worried that it was going to like ruin our feedback. But just just want to say out like everybody listening, really cool product. Again, this episode is not sponsored by talking about we're here to learn about you. But it is so cool. So if you're out there and you are a speaker, definitely check it out. Because it is it was awesome. And I use it a couple of weeks ago.

Arel Moodie:

Yeah, thank you, Jason. And you know, it's interesting, because as we're you know, I appreciate you saying that you found it useful. We have a really other incredible technical founder of whose name is Jared who just as one of the most brilliant programmers and engineers I've ever I've ever got to work with. So when I get to work with people who are really smart, one of the things that has come out about this is understanding a totally different approach to how to go about this, right, because there's a there's a sales and marketing approach, right, which we're very much in kind of the service based world, if you're if you will use to write, I've got to sell, I've got a market, I've got to bring people in the door. And when you're building a tool, a product, there's something called product lead marketing, and product lead is where you're constantly iterating on how do you make the product better and better and better and better? What's every single friction point that a user will have? Because whenever someone is acquiring a new thing, believe it or not, they're actually thinking to themselves, why shouldn't I use this? Why is it easier for me to just do the things that I've been like, I could just use Excel like I know how to use Excel. So what happens is people are constantly trying to find Oh, All the reasons why they should not use something totally, your job is to figure out all of those reasons and slowly start, you know, building and whittle it like kind of removing the clay, if you will to reveal that statue of David that's underneath. Yeah. And I think that there is this really interesting balance of releasing a product. And this is where like, my, my co founder, Jared is like, really brilliant. He's really big. And let's build something that has value. Let's release it before we're ready. Because the feedback and this is where pokin brings Virginia, like she's constantly hearing what people are saying and be like, No, we have to change this to do this. But that process is so you're so naked, because what we'd like to do as service providers is be perfect package me in because I am the expert. And I now will present to you all of the solutions and ask questions in the right way that will lead you to your like discovery. And in the product where there's actually this like, let me be really uncomfortably naked, if you will, in front of you show you this tool that has value and doesn't have enough value that people will use it. But then where they're frustrated, you've got to find that out. And yeah, carbon and make it better. And that is a totally different, I think approach than service based. Yeah, businesses typically

Jason Frazell:

use, right, because, well, the other thing too, is you don't generally, as a service based business. If you you don't have the ability, if somebody pays you for your time, are you going to contract and then like, it doesn't work for them, that creates a lot of friction. versus my previous life. And I worked in software it was it was more mature software, closet quasi mature, let's put it that way in some ways. But you know, there was there was like a month free trial, but then like you're in it, and you integrate it into your and I was always selling to like businesses. So your intimate. And I say that because talk about is kind of similar to that, like, I will never do a speaking gig without using talks about again, like I've used it once. And now it's there, I have a slide out of my my QR code for it. Because now that I like it's addicting that you're like, oh, like, oh, this feedback is really valuable. And the and I say all this because I'm also like, okay, cool. So maybe it's not going to be absolutely perfect. Or maybe there's a feature that isn't quite there yet that I might need. But it's not going to have me go like No, I'm not going to use it. I think like what what I'm hearing you say that, and I've never had anybody on the show before this is a really interesting conversation is who's who's a service based professional, who's now kind of like a product professional as well, is that in product, if we like, at least for me, I'm an early adopter, if I know something's new. I'm usually just grateful that it's there. And I can use it. And I actually I've actually like been somebody say, like, hey, like, I think this could be better, or I really liked this feature. Or this wasn't useful to me, I actually really enjoy that I think a lot of people are especially when your sounds like you all are kind of doing something new. Most people that are willing to take on something new, like know that it's going to be iterative.

Arel Moodie:

Well, and that's the thing that is a huge philosophical switch in my head, right? Because in my world, it's always allow me to present myself to you as the service provider that's already solved all the problems. And now, here I am, as you know, this amazing professional, where what you have to do and when you make that transition, is you have to tell people, this is new, like there's like, oh, but if it's new, they won't use it. It's like, no, that's not true. That's like, it provides enough value. And I think what happens is people try to figure out, well, what's a better way to sell it? Oh, let me figure out a better sales strategy. Let me figure out a better way to convince you to use it. And maybe it does the thing we promise it doesn't maybe it doesn't, I believe it does. But but but when you do this approach, it's like, look, this is brand new, here's what we're trying to get to, here's the value add. Let's get all of this iterative process into our product development side. Then what happens is you start going, Wow, I can't believe we didn't think of that, or I can't believe we did. And then you make these changes. And then eventually, you get it in front of people and they say things like you thought of everything. Oh my god. This is it's like it does everything I literally get punched in the face metaphorically over and over violate, you know, users going well, how come I don't do that? Why doesn't do that. But if you actually fall in love with that process, which is what Yeah, I have done and not take it as an affront that you're not good enough. But this is this incredible process. You'll start building something that I genuinely believe I'm making this number up. It's not a real number, but I'm sure 90% of businesses just want to sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. But if you can actually build something that's really valuable that's when you start getting like you know, base camps and You know, like companies that don't do really much marketing, you get slack, don't have to really do much marketing. But the user acquisition is so high because it's such a valuable tool.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah. That's, that's super cool. Well, thanks for sharing that. And we should continue to success and all the things. As we move on to the next section, I was just thinking about pitching kids pitching like keynote and like your audience be like, so listen, here's the deal. I have I want to speak to your audience. I don't really have anything to speak about yet. I'm not sure if this is scientifically proven. But would you mind if I just tested it? It's kind of like an open mic, I'm gonna I'm gonna run some bits, I'm gonna run some, I'm gonna do some jokes here. I hope that works. Or as a coach, you're like, so I haven't really been trained in anything. And I don't really know if this is going to resonate, or, or if this is going to work for you at all. But would you mind assigning a three month engagement with me? And we're gonna test it out together?

Arel Moodie:

It's like the skit like as a service, right? It almost sounds ridiculous when you say that, right? Like, that's, nobody's gonna hire that person. You know, but that, in essence, when you're building a product, right, you have to say like, I know that this can I am I solving a problem? Right? Like, what is your problem? I want to sound like that. You got to start with that. Oh, and you know, I'll share this as well. This is also really fascinating. And I, I only learned this by doing not by before, when you're going through that editor, iterative process where you're showing someone they're giving you feedback, you're adjusting, tweaking all that. Don't actually ask people, What is it that you want it to do? That was a bit like, oh, what would the tool have to do for you to like to use it? People will tell you 1000s of things. Actually, one, right. Instead, you want to ask, what problem are you having? What frustration is there? And then I become aware of the problem and the frustration, then it's my job to come up with an elegant solution. And that was it was usually like, oh, Jason, what would you want it to do for you to be happy? What what are you frustrated with at the end of talks, you know, and that's what we discovered. Okay, there's this huge line of people at the end of my talk, but I can't talk to everyone. And then even worse, like, you get that one long talker, who's just like, oh, my gosh, you are your Have you been to the Catskills? Oh, my gosh, oh, my God. Have you had this restaurant? And they're like having a super long? And you're like this line of people behind? Yeah, I don't want to be rude. But I got to like, spread it out. Yeah, what if you can grab those it? Oh, that's the problem. Let's come up with this as a solution. So if you understand the problems, not what people want, you can get into this beautiful place of creating a really good product.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, amazing. Keep up the good work as a customer, keep up the good work. And I've got a list of feature requests for you at the end of this episode.

Arel Moodie:

I want them all I want every, every, every frustration.

Jason Frazell:

No, it's just like a wish list of things that I might use. But I would highly recommend you change your your an engineering timeline and your agile process or whatever you're using. Just make sure you reprioritize everything for my list. If you could do that, that would be great. I'm not guaranteeing I'm gonna use any of it. But it's just kind of like, you know, it's a pipe dream stuff. Alright. So yeah, exactly. So what would you like to ask me? And I can answer for for you and everybody listening?

Arel Moodie:

Jason, you you have worked with a lot of people on on the coaching side, right? Yeah. And what happens is, you'll start noticing humans have patterns. And humans have beliefs that they believe uniquely are like, they'll say, Well, I don't know if anyone else has ever said this or experienced this. And then you go, you know, like almost everyone that

Jason Frazell:

you're like, Well, it depends. Are you talking about in the like, in the two clients earlier this morning? Or? The answer is probably yes.

Arel Moodie:

So what what have you found with all of the, you know, incredible coaching and work that you've done that people genuinely believe, is an individual, like, journey that no one else has experienced? Yeah. And you're like, No, that's actually quite a universal human experience.

Jason Frazell:

Oh, this one is so easy. And by the way, this is a great, great question. The universal truth, including myself, is that we don't actually know what we're doing. Or the or that every No, sorry. The universal truth is that everybody else has it all figured out. But I don't. I'll share a couple of anecdotes about this. Yeah. I had a client have a client, who is he runs a 1200 person organization. And we start off with our first call, and he says to me, Jason, I have zero confidence. I said, you know, as coach, I'm like, you know, you don't want to get in that trap so quickly. Like let's fix it. Let's make your call. But I was like, Tell me more. He's like, I don't know what I'm doing. Or what do you mean? I don't know what I'm doing, will you, you're on a 1200 person organization, that's a billion dollar manufacturing arm of a large company to get but I don't know what I'm doing on a daily basis, I have zero confidence in myself for what I do. And another person who is a senior leader at a software company, who had to make some headcount decisions, you know, like, and he said, The truth is, I'm afraid when we found out I don't know anything more than anybody on my team. Like, I don't know anything. I don't really know what I'm doing. I have some technical expertise. I don't really know what I'm doing as a manager, and they're going to be found out. Speaking for myself, I coach a lot of people that are way more highly educated than me, like ivy league, NBA, coach, couple PhDs, like you know, and I'm a, you know, lowly undergrad from big 10 school over here, who have had, who, I know make a lot more money than I do, because I know what they do. And they work it. And they, they do these amazing things. And like, I have those feelings, too. Because what I think the universal truth is, as well as that we it's all about what we know, like you're saying about the expertise and always working on this. And this is the way I'm trained. My coach training, it's called ontology. So it's like the study of being you probably heard of it. It's like, it's like the study of being and the study of doing and that actually, and this is EQ stuff, right, who we are, and how we show up in the world is arguably as important if not more important in most fields, than knowing the answer or knowing that stats or knowing the facts and figures. But we're, that truth is almost universal for most people is that is because they it's what you said earlier, they make it look easy. Right? So I was I was like, I like Mel Robbins. And I saw a speech that she did. And somebody asked her, Well, do you get nervous. And I think three years ago, right before the pandemic, she was the highest paid female motivational speaker on the planet, she made like five or $6 million. So a lot of money as a speaker, as somebody who's not Michelle Obama, or Oprah, I don't even know if Oprah but you know, it was like her, it was like the three of them. And she said, Of course I get nervous. I get nervous before every speech, but what I do, and I think I'm not good enough. And I think who are these people that are gonna listen to me, and it doesn't matter how much you're paying. But then she said something like, and then I just realized that nervousness or that fear is actually just excitement. Physiologically, it's the same in our brain sees it the same way. And she's like, and then I just say to myself about five times, I'm excited to give this speech. And it just completely reframes it. And so that comes up for every client, I have, no matter how much they make, what level they are, whether they're right out of school, whether they're like running a big organization is like, I don't actually know what I need to know when I'm going to be found out. impostor syndrome is a common term. And the second thing that most people have is I need more information. I need more information. And I saw a really great quote today from a gentleman named Derek Severs. And he said, I don't know if you've heard this, but he said, If information as humans was all we needed, we all be billionaires with perfect abs.

Arel Moodie:

That's right. That's right. But the truth is, we

Jason Frazell:

don't need more information. Information, like if there's one thing that's not lacking for any of us who have access to the internet, or other humans is information.

Arel Moodie:

So yeah, one of the quotes I heard that, that I think echoes is that it's not actually the need for content. It's the need for context, right? Like, yeah, how do we apply content to our individual circumstance is like the big need. And I you know, I cannot stress enough because I remember when I started my, my entrepreneurial journey, I was very young, you know, so as a teenager, when I like got really interested in entrepreneurship. And I would go to these panels with these, like, super successful, like seven year old like, bajillion errs. And they would say, like, you know, I really don't know what I'm doing. And I remember thinking to myself very clearly, you're trying to be humble, and it's not working. You clearly know what you're doing. And I don't like that, that you say that because you're trying to make me feel better about myself. But in reality, you've clearly figured everything out. And then as I've gone throughout the journey, what I realized is, we genuinely feel that the thing is, when you're older, probably 70 You've dealt with it so much that you can just address it like without the same amount of emotions as someone who's 25 Do you really know I really don't know what I'm like I'm really flying by the seat of my pants. Yeah, and the success that we have makes people discount it, but my internal view of self and internal experience. I mean, it's such a really great observation that you pointed out, because so many of us think that I'm going to be found out that that phrase is so perfect. I'm pretty sure Nope. It's the perfect phrase, because that's the that's the biggest like, they don't really like. So like, we I got a TV show with Disney plus, right, called Family reboot. So there's three hosts, I'm one of the hosts. And I remember the whole time, I kept trying to almost tell the producers, like one sentence was, I'm the best person you can possibly choose for this because a passion I have this experience. And then the other was like, you know, I've really never done this. I don't know what like, like, I don't have like 20 years of experience in it. So like, if that's what you're looking for, that's not me, like, yeah, I was like, constantly afraid the whole time, they were gonna be like, This guy's a loser.

Jason Frazell:

Yes, yes. Yeah. Because it's gotta be about exactly what you know, or the experience you've had the thing, the thing I'll wrap with this. And as a fellow Coach, what you just highlight highlighted, is what separates usually coaches from consultants, is coaching to context not to content. So for example, my client who says, I have no confidence, the content there is that, oh, he's not confident, what do we need to do to fix that? Oh, let me take a confidence course, let me what would make you feel more confident. But but you know, this, even better than I do, arguably, because of the work you do and what you speak on, pounding against that belief system, is actually going to reaffirm that he doesn't know anything, and he's not confident it's actually going to reinforce that context. Because our ego and our brains like to reinforce what we believe to be true, because our ego and our brain likes to be right. So if I believe inherently, that I don't know what I'm doing, I'm always gonna be looking for proof of that subconsciously. As a coach, if a client says, Oh, I don't have any confidence. The question should be, we want to poke at that context. Well, is that actually true? Or what? Why would have you say that? Oh, and then they're gonna list off all the proof of why they don't. And then and so like this is, and this was a huge shift for me through my coach training. And the work I still do is, like, poking at the content or poking at the problem solving actually reinforces most of the time, which is why a lot of people which is why information isn't enough, it's the application, but applying it inside of the same belief system is gonna get you the same results. Versus that so, man, I feel like we could we could talk about this stuff for an hour. Really? Everyone tell you? That's a brilliant question. I've never had anybody asked me in quite that way. Really great question, or I'll see you soon. My

Arel Moodie:

question was going to be what's your favorite color? So I'm glad I went with that one. Oh,

Jason Frazell:

well, I will answer that as well. It's purple because I'm a huge Minnesota Vikings fan. I've always always been a purple and I'm from Minnesota purple between the Vikings and Prince like come on like that is that's the color

Arel Moodie:

and now with your with your small children. You can add Barney to that and then you just got the you got the holy trinity of purple.

Jason Frazell:

I don't even I don't even go Barney. I just make them watch Vikings games with me and listen to Prince. I wish I was tell I wish I was saying something that wasn't true. But that's actually

Arel Moodie:

that could be the best visual I think I've ever had is Prince playing in the background, wild Vikings game and little kids just with their dad, just like the memories I had with my dad were so warm.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, it's happened. If you if my if my almost seven year old daughter's on her and said, What's Daddy's favorite colors? She would say purple and green? And I'd say that's correct.

Arel Moodie:

Love it. So Rachel, what

Jason Frazell:

are you passionate about?

Arel Moodie:

I am passionate about understanding how we all tick. You know, I there is nothing more exciting to me. I can spend hours like the can of worms you just opened up in my mind of questions I want to ask you is through the roof, I tend to find if I can find people who are really, really, really expert at something, it doesn't matter what it is. And I can just ask them questions about it. It's like, you know, it's probably why this podcast is so fun for you, you know, you get to ask these questions to people who are good at this thing. And for me, I'm just wildly passionate about because I believe that we understand what makes us tick and why we do things and what causes us to do them. We can become more. There's something called subject object awareness, we're subject to most things that means it happens to us. Yeah, if we can take things that happen to us and make them an object, something we can actually physically look at, like, Where does my confidence or lack of confidence come from? And I can actually look at it, then I can actually go well, is that true? Is it really is it always true? Right? I'm subject to that lack of confidence. I can't do anything about it. So I think my passion of uncovering how to move things from subject to object This is like one of my geeky as nerdy as like most passionate things in the whole world.

Jason Frazell:

I mean, that's a whole that is a whole nother podcast and stuff just talking about that concept. That's brilliant. What are you most proud of?

Arel Moodie:

I have been with my wife for 20 years, married for 10. We have two beautiful children. And I think that in a world where I think family becomes, in language important, but in practice not. I'm very, very proud of my family unit. And I hope I continue to make them proud of me.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, as I was waiting for you to say the thing that most people who have children say on this podcast, it's, it's the, it's the number one answer I get on all these questions is, no, I know, this is going to be cliche. But it's got to be my kids. And I'm like, Listen, if I was going to run a statistical analysis, and this will be episode like 145. So I've got a pretty nice little dataset. I would, I couldn't list on one hand, the number of parents who did not say their children. And I can, it's funny, it's actually a really funny little statistical thing, which makes a lot of sense is for people that have children. It's almost always that for people that don't, the answers are so wildly varied. And then all that goes by the wayside when they when people have children.

Arel Moodie:

I think what happens with children, which is a huge shift, at least the way that I view children, is you realize that really is your best chance at immortality. Yeah. If you look at anything you create, I mean, how many businesses today? Were around 100 years ago?

Jason Frazell:

It's that's a, you know, it's a it's a funny, that's a funny and statistically relevant question. I believe. They did a study. It's either like the fortune 500, or maybe even the doubt, like the Dow 30. Like the Dow Jones Industrial, it's

Arel Moodie:

like not many. It's not really fascinating. The odds of you creating something that actually stands the test of time. Yeah, is pretty infinitesimally small. Yeah. But when you look at your children, you go, this is like, my, this is for whatever. And it's probably a whole interesting trip of why do we even care about immortality in the first place? And why do we even care about like, creating an impact, but you know, I get more present that when, when, especially around death, when you notice people die, you'll go to the funeral people cry. And then for the most part, people move on, like, their life isn't supposed to stand still, because someone passed. So out of everything you create, and all the people you touch, like people have positive memories of you, but your children become that if you do it, right. I believe those that one aspect of life, that it's like, what I taught what I care about, what's important to me can live on, and it will evolve, and it will change. And it's not going to be exactly the way I want it to be. But that's like our best shot at making an actual difference. Because everything else we do is so it's so it's so just smoke rising.

Jason Frazell:

Man, that's amazing. That's so true. All right. What's something that you're afraid might be true about you? And you know, the perfect the perfect thing right here would be that I don't know anything

Unknown:

I'm doing? Yeah.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah. Like, what is something that you are afraid? That might actually be true about you?

Arel Moodie:

Yeah, I think that what I am fearful of that probably is true, is that I won't be able to focus long enough on one thing, to make it as successful as it could be. And what I mean by that is, I like to do multiple things, you know, just in this conversation alone, we probably covered multiple topics. And I have a belief, it could be completely false, that the people who make the biggest dent in the universe are really focused on one thing, and they do one thing and to do that one thing really well, and that one thing evolves into many, many other things, but it's really one thing they're doing. And I think that you know, I don't know if I have the ability to do that. And does that a allow me to be good at many things, but not great at anything? And I think that would be a big fear of mine come to reality.

Jason Frazell:

Interesting context hurl. I could if I wanted to fix that context, or give you argue against that, I could give you all sorts of athletes and business people but no, I mean, I think that is something well, I think that's just to say it, I think that's something the educational system kind of ingrained in us. I mean, I was a liberal arts major. So liberal arts is a little less but you know, like more technical and scientific roles. It's pretty like you really want to be I'm the person around this thing. And in the business world is kind of like as a service provider, like you want to have be the niche, the person that is the de facto expert and goes on podcasts and speaks about it about development theory, because that's what branding and marketing will tell you. I'm curious to see how that's going to shift because there's so much information always coming out that like, like you said, that can be a hard thing to break through and be like that person. And also, there's so many people that are willing to do business with us that you don't have to be that person anymore. You can be one of the people that speaks to your people. That's my personal opinion on it. And I do a lot of branding stuff.

Arel Moodie:

No, I think that I think it is a one it's a self acceptance of your skill set, right? Like there are certain people like there's someone who like, they just do dry cleaning, and they know everything to the minutiae of how to dry clean something perfectly, and you kind of like, you know, and that's not like a sexy business, but like you kind of go yellow that that person is the goat and we kind of aspire to that in a sense

Jason Frazell:

of dry cleaning.

Arel Moodie:

Yeah, there's, there's no one that will dry clean your shirt better than over there. And I think that there is a an element that I think this is my personal journey. I think this is my personal journey is saying, it's okay to be multifaceted in your passions. And it's okay to be really good at a bunch of things as long as you're enjoying the journey. And I think that I do, intellectually get it but emotionally it's not there yet.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, yeah. I feel like you and I are doppelgangers in some ways. Other ways? Definitely not. Some ways we are. Yeah, I'm the same way. I'm like, doing one thing sounds so wildly boring. It's why I was in sales. Because even in sales like you're never just doing, quote unquote, one thing. You're gonna hold a bunch of everything's really cool. Love it. Well, around how do you see the world?

Arel Moodie:

I see the world as a beautiful place that if you focus on what's beautiful, you will find it and if you focus on what's crappy, you will find it and it's just a matter of focus. That's it. Yeah.

Jason Frazell:

How can audience connect with you and everything you're about to share with throw in the show notes as well. But yeah, like people want to book you to speak they want to find out more about talking dot they want to check out your show on Disney plus your show on Disney plus, or they just want to get some tips on how to how to be the de facto experts super dad as I am labeling you. But to be clear, you did not ask for this. I'm labeling you superdad. Oh, I've got a lot to live up to you are now the goat superdad Label

Arel Moodie:

Label humbly accepted, I hope to my kids will be like he you should see the dad fields this guy does. It will change your opinion there, Jason. So the good news about my name. So my name is Earl moody. The good news about it is I literally am the only real movie in the whole world, right? I can imagine Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, or Google and you put in my name, the ability to find me a super easy URL. moody.com is, you know, my main website for those who are speakers and are like, Oh, my gosh, we have you know, talk about it's free. We have a free version of it. And obviously a upgraded paid version with the free versions. Very, very good. So you got to talk dot.com That'll be in the show notes. And why don't we put your talk about link for people to give you feedback? If you want to give Jason feedback on this particular interview. Yeah, let's do it. Once you're talking about linking to anything, and let's see what yeah, let's see what yeah,

Jason Frazell:

for those. So this is an ask for the audience. We're gonna I'm gonna put this in the show notes. And I'm just to give you all a little bit of context. I was talking to Raul last week, and I had mentioned that I could see this being an ongoing process that would be valuable for podcasters is to get to get because what you get as you'd like you, we were talking about just to say this, and I'm curious, I would love if people would take the time to do this. So please, if you're listening, please take the time, go into the show note, click on the talk about link and give feedback on this episode. Because as a podcaster, you only get feedback on your show. You don't get feedback on episodes, unless it's like an email like, Hey, that was really an interesting conversation. But I want to start getting feedback on the episode so I can know what you all want to hear more of what's working what's not, because I'm always iterating. And looking at this as in a way a product as well. There will be a talk about link in the show notes. Please give myself Give me your honest feedback on what you thought of this episode.

Arel Moodie:

You cannot hurt my feelings or Jason's feelings. And I will tell you this for anyone who says, I'm going to do it later. I got you Jason. Just do it. Now you're at this point in the interview, just just click on the link. It takes less than two minutes. It's very quick. Do it now because if you do it later, that's just not how the world usually works

Jason Frazell:

now and you're just not going to do it later. I know I wouldn't do it later be like, I'm gonna get to that one. I never,

Arel Moodie:

never. Nice. pleasure, man, honestly. Yeah. Pleasure to have this conversation with you. Yeah,

Jason Frazell:

this has been amazing. Well, we'll have to get you back on here again to dig in. I mean, we got lots of things we could dig in on. Last question for you, or actually, last request of you is to leave us all with some words of wisdom and make it short and sweet.

Arel Moodie:

You know, I'll say that I'll leave you with an idea that that drives me the most is that when you can focus your time on making the unconscious conscious, then you'll actually be able to control what you do. And it won't be you saying it's just fate. It's a Carl Sagan quote that I really love. So we have to take what's unconscious and make it conscious? And if we don't, we're gonna say it's fate controlling us where it's really not.

Jason Frazell:

Are you? Um, you wrap up? Are you? Are you a fan of shad? Helmstetter? You know, he's, he's kind of like the godfather of positive thinking. I actually had him as a guest last year, I'll send you a link to the episode. That is, that is also what he does. And it was funny, because the What's something you're afraid might actually be true about you? He's like, nothing. Like nothing. And he's been doing this a long time. He's like, a positive, positive mindset kind of person. quite famous in that space. But it was funny. Like, he had no answer for that. And I was kind of like, okay, can you give me something but then when I looked research and more, I'm like, Oh, he actually like, this is what he stands on, is he's learned how to remove those things or so he says, like, you know, good, good guy. He's written books, and he's got all sorts of stuff, but I'll send you a link to him. You should check him out. He's this is like, right in his wheelhouse is like, you can actually reframe your mind that you don't believe those things anymore. So those are those people who have goals, man, let's go. I know, you're like, Oh, I'll bet you he never thinks he's not good enough. I'm like, he probably does. He just doesn't say that if you're listening, I apologize. I don't know. Uh, well, thank you so much for being on. I'm so glad we made this happen. Really excited. Released. This is we're recording this on Halloween 2022. We're going to release this on November 2 2022. How fun is that? I'm trying to give it a better cadence. Best wishes to you, the wife, the family. We'll have you back out again soon and keep doing what you're doing.

Arel Moodie:

The outro sound effect.

Jason Frazell:

Goodbye, everybody.

Unknown:

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