Talking to Cool People w/ Jason Frazell

Sheila Wilkinson, LMSW, Esq. - Attorney, Coach, Educator and Podcast Host of "What Would Sheila Say?"

October 26, 2022 Season 3 Episode 41
Talking to Cool People w/ Jason Frazell
Sheila Wilkinson, LMSW, Esq. - Attorney, Coach, Educator and Podcast Host of "What Would Sheila Say?"
Show Notes Transcript

Sheila shares the heartbreaking story of becoming an orphan in childhood due to the AIDS epidemic, how she and her sister broke the cycle and Jason and Sheila share the soapbox about people that say they have the "right" answer in the personal development space.

Sheila also surprises Jason with a couple of baller dad jokes.

"We cannot expect of others what we expect of ourselves for there, and we will always find pain."

Sheila M. Wilkinson is a Louisiana Licensed Attorney, a Louisiana Licensed Master Social Worker, an Educator, an Empowerment Coach and the host of the “What Would Sheila Say?” Podcast. Sheila combines her love for the law, social work, and education to help lawyers, creatives, and other service-based professionals and business owners transform pain, frustration, and unreasonable expectations at work into happiness, success, and healthy boundaries, so that they can achieve their personal and professional goals.

Sheila splits her time between New Orleans and Brussels, serves several nonprofits in the Greater New Orleans area, and provides services across the globe. Whenever Sheila’s clients need to make a decision and they’re stuck, all they have to do is ask themselves: “What would Sheila say?” … and like magic, they have their answer!

https://sheilawilkinson.com
https://www.facebook.com/lawyercoachsheila
https://www.linkedin.com/in/smwilkinson/
https://www.instagram.com/sheilamwilkinson/

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Find the show at all of the cool spots below and find us at jasonfrazell.com/podcasts.

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Jason Frazell:

Hey, everybody, my guest on the show today is somebody that I've gotten to know over the last few months. And we actually talked about doing this a few months ago. And here we are finally, scheduling. Both busy. And I think we want to make this meaning conversation meaningful and timely. Sheila, I have Sheila Wilkinson with me today. Sheila is the joyful lawyer and entrepreneur, so who doesn't want more joy in their life? Sheila, I can't wait for you to spread the joy here with all of us today. Welcome. So glad you made this happen.

Sheila Wilkinson:

Yeah, thanks. Thanks for making it happen. But also, thanks for asking. You know, I feel like who doesn't want more joy? I think people want more joy. But, you know, a guy hopes and it's not they think it's not attainable. But

Jason Frazell:

that's Yeah, right. So they want it but they don't maybe know how to get it or what the next step is, which I think I think we're gonna talk about that today. We think that's something you and I are very aligned on. So we got a lot to talk about. So let's get into it. I can't wait to hear the answer this first question, because I know that you are a woman of many interests, like many disparate interest. So what's something what is one thing that you nerd out about?

Sheila Wilkinson:

Oh, one thing I nerd out about? Can it be two things now?

Jason Frazell:

Just fine. We'll break the rules right at the top. Yeah, two things. What's two things you nerd out about? Let's break the rules here.

Sheila Wilkinson:

Honestly, I think that I nerd out about the processes. Like I know, that sounds like a really boring thing to some people, perhaps. But so I grew up in a house like full of food full of love full of like, you know, recipes and all the things and over time, I just grew to love, like the process of like, creating something better. And I think that like recipes as a kid like growing up, like people always ask me about recipes. Like, oh, can I have the recipe to that thing you cooked and I'm like, good luck. I took it from like, 10 different recipes. And then I took the best of the best of the best out and then I've made my own recipe in it. And I think that's really like for me, the nerding out happens in the processes like it happens and figuring out like, how is this working? Why is this not working? How can we make this better? What can be that like? Incremental experimental change that we can make to make it the best? And so don't get me started? Why are you asking me something about nerding? out the very first question, because I could just keep going. But I think I think for every gets processes, you know, I think for, for me, it's about creating the thing that is going to help you work at your best. And I do this at home, it's not just in the workplace, right? It's not just about business, it's like life, like once I have a system in place, once I have a process in place, I want the process to continue. And if I see a an area where it needs to get better, I just tweak the thing. And then it runs even better. Right? And so yeah.

Jason Frazell:

Oh, man, I have a question for you about this. Okay, you and I know each other through specific community. And, you know, you're you work for yourself, and I know you do some other things, we'll probably talk about this, I work for myself. There is a million people that would like to sell us a million different processes on the quote unquote, right way to do it in our business. Right. Right. Sheila, do you generally find that intuitively, you can do it as well as anybody could sell it to you for in terms of like, what works for your business and the way that you operate?

Sheila Wilkinson:

Well, I don't use anyone else's processes. I do what feels right for me. Yeah. So you have to start somewhere, obviously, you learn about something, you go, Oh, let me try that. But I don't, I don't just use that process. Because that's someone else's process. I figure out how to make that process mine, or if it doesn't work, I let it go. But I do what's right for me. So it's the same kind of thing that I'm doing with my clients. It's like, what do you want to do? Like, how do you want to communicate with your client? How do you want to have that? You know, that intake process, how do you want to, you know, follow up with them to get testimony of like, whatever, right? Like, whatever these things are, that we processes that we're creating. It's, I just I hate. I don't like it when people try to sell me their right way to do things. Okay, so I should put some disclosure and kind of put some disclosure in here, please. Oh, I don't know how how familiar you are with human design. I'm quite familiar. quite familiar. Okay, good. All right. So I'm anymo projector five one. So basically, I know the right way. I know all the information about the right way. I know the right way for me. Get out of my way. Yeah, I want to help people make that thing that works best for them. Right. And I want to do it my way like Don't tell me that there's a better way because I promise you that I have done all kinds of research and I figured out the best way, not the best way but the best way for me, right? Yeah. And I think it wasn't until I learned Human Design and like, understood all of the pieces of that puzzle that I'm like, Oh, that is my superpower. Yeah. So when you say like, what do you nerd out about? Like my whole life? I've nerded out about that. But I didn't realize that that was how I was designed to be. I just thought that was like, some cool thing that I had, you know,

Jason Frazell:

so funny. I'm the opposite. I'm a pure manifesting generator. So I just totally trust myself without having to know the how. I'm like, That explains

Sheila Wilkinson:

everything. Yeah, well, here we are. But yeah, but also, you know, with, I mean, especially when you're a manifesting generator, you're like, skipping all the steps. Like you're supposed to skip the steps, you're supposed to say, where do I want to go? Oh, let me just go over to that place. And then when you realize, oops, I forgot a couple steps. Yeah, you like backtrack? And then because of things, you're tweaking in the stuff, yeah.

Jason Frazell:

Welcome to my world. Good, bad and indifferent. Yeah, well, a lot of my clients, well, we need each other. That's why we all need each other, though. Exactly. I've complained about this on the podcast a couple of times, and we'll move on here. But I think you and I are very, I think you and I are very aligned on this. One thing that is probably my biggest pet peeve in the personal development space, the coaching space, specifically, is when I see somebody and their marketing is here's my 18 step process to unlocking your potential or something about it, like a process to them? Like, how the heck would you know, right? What's going to be the thing that's right, for Jason or for Sheila, now we can, as coaches we know that we sit with our clients on unlock that together, but anybody who's pitching to me that they know that way, that isn't immediate, like, I will probably never do business with that thing, right? Like a five step process to like, the five step process to unlimited wealth. I'm like, You have no idea how much money I already have, nor what my risk appetite is, like, you don't know those things. And I understand that some of that is just marketing. Between the nerding out conversation of me and me getting on my soapbox, we could we could be here for that. Yeah, but we're not going to, because we're gonna get to know you more here international generators. So what's so Sheila, what's something that is inside of your comfort zone that you know, is outside of other people's and I'm going to take following processes or developing better processes off the table? Because that would just be way too easy for you?

Sheila Wilkinson:

Yeah, sure. Now, I would say being vulnerable, like, being willing to be vulnerable, talking to strangers, walking up to strangers and be like, Hi, how are you? Or hey, I love your shoes. Or I always get this whenever, especially in with family and stuff. They're like, can I teach you know that personally? Oh, no, I just, you were talking to them? Yeah. You know, like, we're taught not to talk to strangers, right? We're down as kids like, it's safe. It's, you know, you're supposed to not talk to strangers. And I'm not suggesting kids go and talk to strangers. But I think, you know, the talking the being vulnerable, the being willing to be sort of in the space, where I'm also learning as I'm helping someone else learn, you know, like talking to big groups of people, those sorts of things. This is all around vulnerability. And, you know, I've had a very interesting life. And we'll move we'll talk about that later. But yeah, definitely. I think it's being vulnerable, like being able to just say, I'm wrong to say, oh, so Oh, I don't know everything. Okay. So let me learn that thing. So that way I can then get better, you know? Yeah, no, no, yeah.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, the ability to say you're wrong and be vulnerable is something that I a lot of people are uncomfortable with, including myself. Because you're like, I think a lot of that comes from, how you're raised. And just the idea that gotta have it all figured out. And what does it mean, if you actually say you don't know, it's something I've had to work on? Much better than it used to be. But there's certain professions, I would say, you know, your urine attorney. Most clients don't want to hear well, I'm not really sure from their attorney. They wanted to be like, well, how much you think I can get into like, well, this is how it's gonna go or like, Hey, here's how the law says. So that's an interesting, that's an interesting tension that I hear is, I don't know when I'm gonna find out for like, expert, real expertise, professions, or yes, my tax accountant, I don't want him to say, Well, I'm not really sure how the IRS is going to treat this visit. I want to be like this. Exactly. It's so interesting. Very interesting.

Sheila Wilkinson:

It's been okay with it not. I mean, it's the being the not knowing. Right. I mean, I don't like to not know. Yeah. I don't like to not know, but I will go find the answer. And to be able to say that, you know,

Jason Frazell:

yeah, so flipping that coin over what something that is uncomfortable for you, or the you know that other people no problem.

Sheila Wilkinson:

Yeah, that's the flip side of that. Right. That's, that's the not knowing like, so back to this human design piece. Like I'm a one line. I'm an investigator, I want to know everything I want to know all of The stuff just give it to me. I want to learn it all. I want to learn something new every single day. And not knowing I'm gonna like that. I don't like it. It's not comfortable. It's like, yeah, it's I don't it feels like being blindsided by something that I should that I think, right. This is an expectation, something that I think that I should know when in reality, there's no way that I should know it. So my husband and I were having this conversation the other day about why we don't play competitive games in the house anymore. So we're big gamers. So we only play collaborative games like collaborative card or board games now because we can't play. I can't play competitive games the way I used to. And this was actually I would say, this is probably prior to law school, I used to be able to do this a lot. I have sent a gaming group, we supply all kinds of stuff. But now Mike, give me 10 roles. I just want to know those 10 roles. And I want to be awesome at these 10 roles, right? And so we're having this conversation the other day about how we don't play these games anymore. And he's like, you know, I just don't I just want us to play like, there are games I want to play with you. And I'm like, I get that. But I don't like it when you know, a roll that I don't know, because you've played the game more. And then I get caught. And he like he'll play a card, he'll make a move and be like, You can't do that. It's like, yeah, you can like what are show me in the rules. And he'll go, he'll be like, This is where the rule is, you know, he'll show it to me. And I'd be like, I didn't know that. And then but all I can think in that moment is like, I would have changed my decision. 1010 steps ago, if I'd know that was something that I could have done. And like, that's really, like, that's a growth opportunity for me, like I recognize that. But in that moment, it's like it feels like blindsided, like ripping apart my soul, you know. So it's like this flip side. It's like being vulnerable. I can, I can do that. But it's like being vulnerable in a space is where I'm sort of leading the space of vulnerability, and allowing others right, versus being vulnerable in a space where I don't know everything. Like that's hard. That's hard. Yeah. That's in your head,

Jason Frazell:

the breakthrough realization that you're enough without having to know everything. Yeah, that's a breakthrough for most clients. Right. And most people, yeah, is like, you know what? I'm valuable. And it's not because I have all the answers to all of the things. Which is hard. Yeah,

Sheila Wilkinson:

absolutely. Yeah. I know, I'm enough. I know, I'm smart enough and kind enough and gentle enough and smart enough to go and look for the answers. But there's definitely that. But I think that now understanding human design, the way I understand it, I think it's the one line that think is this investigator part of myself that like wants to know, I just want to know, not that I want to be right. I just want to know, so that way, I can take that into my big pile of information and make good decisions with it, you know, make decisions for myself,

Jason Frazell:

before we move on, because you're talking about human design. That's obviously for those listening that don't know what human design is. It's really cool. You can just Google Human Design. It'll make sense. Have you ever taken Clifton Strengths? Mm hmm. I bet your number one is either learner or input? Yeah, it's like the thing. Are you do you ever really familiar with them? But yeah, are you do you have a really easy time with collecting information and things and like, making it useful for you? Yes. Yeah. That's just littered learner, or both? Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. All right. So Sheila, now we're going to move and talk a little bit about speaking, which I know you do. Oh, give you five minutes on world stage talking about whatever you want. You get five minutes. What are you going to speak to us all about? And what's your call to action at the end of the speech?

Sheila Wilkinson:

I want to talk about expectations. My talk about how expectations are at the root of everything. And how we believe so there's Okay, so expectations are just messages, right? They're messages that we have learned throughout our life. And I come from the perspective that and they're coming from everywhere right they're coming from our parents are coming from our friends from TV from media from clergy from like ask aunts, uncles, everything podcasts. Well, especially like as an adult expectations, messages you're getting, but also like growing up like and those aren't necessarily the same thing because you're looking at them through different lenses right. But expectations and that, sorry, come from the perspective that everything is based on expectations. There are four main types of expectations. The first one is expectations that we have of ourselves. The second one is expectations that we have of others and that caveat to that, that we have explicitly said that we have of them, right, like explicitly telling them this, instead of having an expectation that you don't ever voice right? expectations that others have explicitly said that they have of us. And then fourth expectations that we think others have had like that others have us love that. Those are assumptions. Yeah, we all know what happens when you assume, right? This is one of the very first things that my father taught me, like, when you assume you make an ass out of you and me. Yep. And so in that four types of expectations, everything we do, every decision we make, is based in an expectation. We don't talk about it that way. We just say, Oh, well, this feels right, or oh, this is right, or oh, this is what I should do? Or could do? Or would do if, if, if, right? These are what ifs, with a judgement in the middle. And when I'm, when I'm thinking about, like, my decisions, my the way that I want to live my life, I'm constantly thinking about it through the lens of an expectation, like, is this an expectation I have of myself? Or is this an expectation that someone else somewhere along the way, has told me that I'm should do or could do or would do you know, like, you're really great at arguing you should be a lawyer, you're really great at reading and writing, you know, writing, you should be a lawyer, right? Or a journalist or a copywriter, like, we're told these things as if, you know, growing up, we're programmed with these expectations of ourselves, that then we grow up, we become adults. And we go into these careers that we think that we're supposed to do because we're quote unquote, good at something, which is an expectation. Yep. And then you realize two 510, seven years, and you're like, crap, this is not for me. I don't want this anymore. Now what? Fuck, right. Like, I've just did I just waste my whole life? Now, I'll say this now, like, you didn't just waste your whole life, right? What you did was learn that that's not an expectation that you want to live up to anymore, that explicit or implicit expectation that you learned about yourself and that you can, which is the next piece of the puzzle, change that expectation. You can change the expectations you have of yourself, even if others still have a different expectation of you. Do you want me say that again?

Jason Frazell:

No, I'm processing that. Yeah. I'm just thinking of I'm I'm looking for myself as a married person, how that might be fraught with risk. I can imagine you'd like. So listen, babe, I've realized the expectation is that I'm not expecting myself to do those things you want me to do anymore? I learned from Sheila Wilkinson, you can find her at her URL. Here's her. Here's her phone number. She told me she told me the right way to do this the right way.

Sheila Wilkinson:

The way the right way is your way, whatever that is, right. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think that we just live our lives. pretending this is you know, I kind of liken this to this, like, there's a ROM das quote, about wearing costumes and about that, that we spend our whole lives convincing everyone else that the costumes that they're wearing are correct. And I'm of the opinion, you just take the costume off, like if it doesn't fit, if it's not, if it's itchy, if it bothers you, if the tag is rubbing at you wrong, just take the costume off, because there's something about the expectation of what you think you're supposed to be doing. You know, I work with a lot. I mean, a lot admins, I work with service based entrepreneurs, right? Like I help them figure their shit up. I help them figure out how, how they're going to change the expectations that they have had their whole life and turn it into something more beautiful, more joyful, more, like fully embodying themselves. And in that, they realize, oh, I have this expectation on myself. And I don't want to have that expectation anymore. And then what do we need to do to let that go? Sometimes it's just letting it go. And it's as simple as a snap, right? Yeah, sometimes you have to, like, unpack some other stuff that's attached to the expectation and figure out like you're saying, you know, you tell your wife like, I know you expect me to take out the trash, but I don't like taking out the trash. What I would say to that is awesome. Well, right, exactly. Nobody likes taking out the trash. Who can take out the trash if it's not you. Right, like, who else can take out the trash? Does it have to be you know, of course not. There are things that we have to do as adults, but in the grand scheme of things. Your life is your life. You don't like the costume that you're wearing. You can take it off, you can change it. And you know, I find a lot of Sosua was gonna say about service based entrepreneurs like I find like I work with a lot of lawyers, I work with a lot of Yogi's somehow, I work with, you know, social workers, I work with accountants, I work with these people who are supporting others in their lives. So they take on this persona of being the guide being the person who, who helps people get from point A to point B. Well, most coaches, most attorneys, most people like this are like, they're, they think that they're taking people from point A to point B. But for me, I'm want to know whether this point A that your ad is actually your point A, or if it's a point A in your life where you think you are, but it's not actually right for you. And then I love all this other stuff of like, this, like yucky muddy stuff, this is the stuff I love, right before point A to make sure that when you do make that next step, you're making the right next step for you. Not just because some marketer told you, you want, you know, whatever in your life, like you want six figure business follow my process, right? Like, right, I it makes me crazy, because that's not going to get you what you want. looking externally is not going to get you what you want, looking internally is what's going to get you what you want. Now, I wrote an article with Ken Malone for the American Bar Association, and it was about like, alternative legal careers in this like, COVID world, right? And one of the things that I was like, I had this idea of such, okay, the idea was, how, like, how, how many questions are out there about what to do with your law degree, right? So just as an example, right, so I googled what to do with a law degree, where you get like, 9,200,000 right results. But then if you change the question to what do I want to do with my law degree, you get five? You get five results, and results, right? Because the question is internal. Google can't answer that question. That's right. You can't answer that question. A lawyer can't answer that question. Accountant can't answer the question like, What do you want to do? What's legal? What's okay? What's ethical? But also, what do you want to do? You know, and I think the expectation that we can tell the truth about what we want, that's deep seated, that we're taught, we're not supposed to do that. We're not supposed to tell people what we want. We're just supposed to just be grateful for what we have and suck it up. Because others have it worse. That's your way to live. Right? Yep. Yeah, yeah.

Jason Frazell:

It's yeah. I love that Sheila. Yeah, the thing I like to say, sounds like you probably use this as well as if you can Google the answer to what you want from me. You don't need to talk to me, you don't need to hire me or any of those things. And there's a lot of things you can't google, the main one being what's true for you. Unless you blog about that. I can Google it. Be like, Hey, but Sheila, like, she a little concerned? What's true for her? Oh, she wrote a blog about it. But then that may have been a year ago, and it's probably changed. So let's go take a brief commercial break. We'll be right back after this. Okay. As Sheila, we're back. And at this point, I'd love to know what else you want all of us to know about you.

Sheila Wilkinson:

Hmm. And I think they want

Jason Frazell:

to say the person who's likable with vulnerability,

Sheila Wilkinson:

no, I literally mean that. Like, yeah, whatever seems most interesting. If you have a question, like,

Jason Frazell:

Well, you mentioned Yeah, well, you had mentioned it, we'll keep this keep this brief. What I'm interested is you had mentioned before that you've had an interesting life. What does that mean?

Sheila Wilkinson:

Oh, all right. So both of my parents, so I'm an orphan. So both of my parents died when I was young, my dad died when I was 12. My mom when I was 16, my father had an affair, he contracted HIV. And then my mother contracted HIV from him. And then they both died. My sister was born in 87, like right at the height of the HIV epidemic. And so I, my lens of life, is that life is short, like, my lens of life is I want to live for now I want to live for today. I want to enjoy the life that I have, because I might not be there tomorrow. You might not be there tomorrow. I want to make every moment that I have count. And so I raised my sister. So we live with family for me here and a half, two years. And then I graduated, and then she came to live with me and I raised her and so Oh, I always work full time, went to school full time raised a kit that was not mine, and also did everything that I thought that I was supposed to be doing. I did everything that I thought I should be doing, right, like being the responsible one, sacrificing myself and what I want for others. Never doing the thing that makes me happy, always making sure that I paid my way and never took a handout like, or what I perceive to be a handout, right. And my life is been framed by this. So you know, we're in this COVID world right now. And for me, a large part of the of COVID, for me has been reliving childhood trauma, right? Like, why don't people care more about each other enough to just wear a mask, right? Like, there's not a judgement. But in my mind, like, my child's brain is like, I want to protect everybody, let's protect everybody, we have the power to do that. And so, you know, I think this, what do I want people to know about me? I am at a place now after lots of years of therapy, lots of coaching, lots of self development and awareness. You know, I have two goals every day. The first is to make a stranger laugh. And second is to be a better person today than I was yesterday. And that assumes that there will be a tomorrow. And I think, for me, there's nothing that I can't learn better. There's nothing that I can't do better for myself to show up and to be the person that I want to be every day. So when you ask like, what do I want people to know about me? It's like, whatever you want, like, I have a ton of life and like life experience. I raised a kid that wasn't mine was a teenager, right? Like, from the moment she was born. She was basically my responsibility. Because my mother was taking care of my father, right is your sister. My real? Like my full sister is your full sister. Yeah, yeah, she's my full sister. And, and so I have two half sisters, older half sisters and older half brother. But that's like different sides. That's a whole that's a whole nother conversation. That's exactly. And so this is like being vulnerable, right? Like people, there are people out there who don't want to answer questions about themselves. And I'm like, whatever. If you if you want to ask me a question, I will tell you the answer. If I don't want to answer it, I'll just say I, you know, I really am not comfortable in this moment of having this conversation. But let's put some time on the calendar. And we'll talk like, we can talk about this, then. Yeah. And then that gives me the space to be ready to have that conversation with people. Yeah.

Jason Frazell:

What a great segue. So first of all, thank you for sharing that. Yeah, what a great segue. You're a podcaster. I'm gonna be your guest here. I know, you also have a great podcast. And so this point. What do you want to ask me that I can answer for everyone here. This feels dangerous.

Sheila Wilkinson:

Yeah, I was gonna say. I was like,

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, I've had i Well, it's funny because I've been I've been doing this part on the show for probably 120 episodes. I've had just some absolute easy layups, and I've had a few things where I'm like, oof. So I've heard I've had the gamut. I have a feeling this is gonna be more of a goof than a layup.

Sheila Wilkinson:

Yeah, thank you, Eddie, I appreciate that you that you've recognized that I'm going to ask you a question.

Jason Frazell:

And I'm also looking at your face and like she's, yeah, you have like an evil grin on your face. Alright, Sheila, hit me.

Sheila Wilkinson:

Okay. Maybe the question is, do you feel like you're living your life? Like, that makes sense. This question like, or

Jason Frazell:

question, we can make this very quick. Yes. Okay. If you would have asked me four and a half years ago, I would have said, No. So this is a new experience for me. I'll expand on it. It's a new experience for me. Where I get to get up. Well, first of all, we have a second human in the house, which, you know, most parents will say, I never knew I needed this kid. But then like, when they're there, you're like, oh, that that was what it was meant to be. But you know, and I'm thinking about this from the context of my career, just for this conversation. I get to wake up every day and make money doing things I love doing. I never knew that was possible for most of my career, and I actually really liked a lot of my career. Like I worked in sales, I was one of the people's like, oh, that actually made sense. And I, like I was never were like, Oh, I hate this. Like I hated certain things about it. But I never hated anything about my corporate career. But if somebody would have said, you know, I'm not going to go into what I've done today and what I did yesterday, what I'm doing tomorrow, but if I was to show you my calendar and say, I'm doing this with this person, this this person recording with Sheila and somebody like Elon, this is actually what you get to do and you may Good, good living doing it. I'd be like, that sounds insane. So I do feel like the answer to that is yes, most of the time for me now. And you know, it's kind of ironic, because also, if you would have said to me four years ago, hey, you're gonna go to Nashville and hang out with these awesome people that are doing similar things to you, or maybe different things. But they all have a similar look at integrity and ethics and who they want to be in the world. That'd be like, what? Oh, my God, you mean, it's the sales kickoff in Vegas, where I'm gonna go with a bunch of other, quite frankly, people that look just like me. And you can take that for what I whatever it means. So yeah, the answer to that was for the most part, yes. Which is really why I'm experiencing more joy than I've ever experienced in my life. For sure.

Sheila Wilkinson:

That's, and that's the point. Right? That's the point. And I, you know, when I, you know, I've been listening to show for a while, obviously, we've known each other for a handful of months now, you know, and I feel like it's lovely to see someone living that the expectations of their own life that they have, and being open about the fact that they have these expectations, you know, yeah, because that's hard, right? It's hard to leave the security of your corporate job, or what you perceive to be let me rephrase what you perceive to be security of your corporate job. Exactly. fired tomorrow with No, exactly with no severance No, nothing, right? Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

Jason Frazell:

I guess the last thing on this great question, by the way, the last thing I would say, and I have talked about this before, what I've come to realize, and this goes back, I think to human design, is the more fun I'm having, the more money I make, the more I keep doing what I'm doing. So if I look at again, if I was to put my calendar on, we were to look at I go, that's a complete blast. That's pretty fun. That's amazing. That's amazing. That's it. And I could actually point it out and be like, and that pays me the most and that pays me the second most and like cuz, you know, I do, like you like to do a number of things. And that's also something that like, was not in my sphere of like, possibility. Four and a half years ago, I had no idea. Working corporate, you go and you get a paycheck, maybe good paycheck, and you go and you sell some stuff, generally sold a bunch of stuff, then you get a commission check, and you go do it all over again. Right? So got an attorney, right, like get a client, what do they need to solve their problems? Hopefully you get paid. Hopefully you win some stuff, and then you're on to the next. So great question. Nobody's ever asked me that. Which is not surprising based on what I knew about you. But now what I'm learning about you. So now I'm going to rip this microphone back before you

Sheila Wilkinson:

ask you a follow up question.

Jason Frazell:

That's it. Done. Vulnerability over? Yeah, Sheila. Let's see what I see. As we start to wrap up today. I want to ask you, or no, because I think you're such an open book. It's always interesting. When I get a guest like this, I want to ask you to switch my order around a little bit and ask you what you're afraid might be true about you. Nothing you're like, that's all I'm gonna say. Now Sheila, will I I'm laughing and I think you get this. Every now and again. I'll get a guest be like nothing. There's nothing I believe I'm like, You're so full of shit. Yeah, yeah. You want to know, like, what did you spend yesterday doing? I don't say that. But I'm like I can put you can tell me what you spend your time doing. And I can guarantee you I can almost assess what you're afraid might be true about you.

Sheila Wilkinson:

Yeah. I'd probably say that. I'm not as funny, I think. So I'm like the queen of dad jokes. If there was a dad joke to be had or said, I'm going to say it. And I think that there's just a certain level of like, humor that not everybody gets, you know. But I think I think there's definitely something because I want and this is the thing, right? Like if one of my goals every day is to make a stranger laugh. It's not necessarily this is what I tell my students to write. Like, I don't care if you're laughing at me or with me. As long as you were laughing. That counts. Because that means that in that laugh in that moment, you're vulnerable. You allowed yourself to feel something that you weren't feeling before. Yeah, no. Yeah. And man, I don't care if people laugh at me. That's fine. Like, if y'all are laughing at me, that's fine. Cool. But also, you're laughing. So that's good. I'm happy with that. That's like, you know, something? Well,

Jason Frazell:

you're accomplishing one of your two goals. Yes. Yeah. So Sheila, are you willing to be put on the spot right now?

Sheila Wilkinson:

Always, if I don't want to answer the question, I won't.

Jason Frazell:

I'm a fellow dad joke kind of sewer. But I have a terrible memory. I don't have anything good right now. First of all, separately, I'm going to send you a couple of Instagram handles that are brilliant. There's this one guy that I'll send Ah, he has a lot of Star Wars dad jokes, which is just my cup of tea. Yes, please. Do you have a dad joke off the top of your head by any chance? And the answer no is perfectly fine. That's what he hit me.

Sheila Wilkinson:

Okay, what did one strawberry say to the other?

Jason Frazell:

Oh my god. No idea.

Sheila Wilkinson:

If you weren't so fresh, we wouldn't be in this jam. Oh my god.

Jason Frazell:

So that's such a good joke. I love dad jokes are the best. Dad jokes are the best because you either there's like no one between a dad jokes either you're like you and me and you're like, oh, that's hilarious and like, so bad, but good. I have a friend that I we helped lead a coach training program. And every dad joke no matter what it was, she just, she just like, closed her eyes and shake her head and go. And then another person on the team would just die. It's like, there's Do you know anybody who's like, yeah, I can kind of dig on dad joke. And either you love dad jokes or you hate him. Yeah, yeah. And I love it. That's a good one.

Sheila Wilkinson:

And I, I love that one. Because if you're a kid, you get it because it's jam. But if you're an adult, you get it because it's fresh. Right? Like, you get all of the nuance of a joke. And it's like, it's just about strawberries. But it's not about strawberries, right? It's like all of the consequences of your behavior are in this one. You know, I love it. I love it.

Jason Frazell:

I offline, I'm gonna send you this Instagram handle and you are gonna be you're gonna be aware of this. If you're not already a follower. It's like Where have you been on my life? I'm gonna shout it out here says he fit dad CEO and his jokes are funny. And he calls his kids dummy. So it'd be like my son said this no, go. No dummy. Then they'll say it. But then he has a second punchline. It's so good. Fit dad, CEO, if you're listening, and you want to come on the show, and I'd love to have you on maybe I'll hit you up on Instagram. But yeah, you're gonna love it. Well, Sheila, what's what's what's, you've obviously had a very, like you said, a very interesting life that is, you know, could not think of a more opposite background for me. The terms of what you went through as a as a child or like as a young woman, and then like what you had to go through so curious. What's What's the thing? You know, if you had to narrow down to one thing, what's the thing that you're most proud of? Dad jokes.

Sheila Wilkinson:

Like, yeah, being able to call it

Jason Frazell:

that Encyclopedia of dad jokes?

Sheila Wilkinson:

Yes. My endless Encyclopedia of anything. Right? Yeah, I'm not addressing your question. But to that point, not addressing the question, we'll come back to the question, but addressing that point, you know, when I was a kid, when I would get in trouble, my dad, my mom would like make the right lines, right. Like, I will not blah, blah, whatever it was, like Bart said, Dad, I will write on the board, right. But my dad would make me write the dictionary and encyclopedia. So that then I was learning while I was writing, which made me fall in love with words with language with, you know, how we express ourselves. So I, you know, credit him for that. So one thing I think that I'm proud of the most proud of, say, maybe not being a statistic. I was an orphan at 16. My sister was eight when we she became an orphan, right? Like, every single thing in the world that could have gone wrong, for us went wrong, right? Like, we lost our parents, HIV, living, going from family to family, being a single mom as a teenager, all of the things but I went I got four degrees, I got my, my undergrad in sociology, my master's in social work, my law degree, and then I went and got an advanced law degree abroad in Brussels. My sister and I graduated from she graduated from high school and I graduated from my master's program on the same day at the same time. We weren't at each other's graduation, right? Yeah. But she has, I mean, she got a she had a double, double undergrad with education and, and in science with a minor in Chem and math like, and she's made an incredible life for herself. And we she's built a life for her child, like she had a child and she raised another amazing human being, like, I raise an amazing human being. And it's like stopping generational trauma. Like, yeah, just creating the spaces for us to live our best lives, despite the fact that everything that happened to us should have made sure that we didn't,

Jason Frazell:

yeah, and that I can't think of anything. That would be a better answer than that. Because everything else you've shared with us is in there, like that's the container that this all sits inside of, as I said, like your your sister in the loss, everything. It's all inside of there. So yeah, just that's really, really touching. And you should be proud. I know you know that. Thanks. Yeah, so Sheila, Let's, let's lighten the mood. I'm kidding.

Sheila Wilkinson:

But no, let's talk about that. I've got tears in my eyes,

Jason Frazell:

tears in her eyes, tears. We don't like we don't like emotion and vulnerability on this. Oh, let's, let's do some more dad jokes. No, I'm kidding. No, but I do I do want to wrap up today and talk a little bit more about about you, because you've alluded to it, what you do want to talk about what you do. And I also know for sure, I also saw Sheila in real life last week, which is delightful. See, because as a total extrovert, I'm like, please people in person, not just on screens, not just, you also have a new cool thing that you just came out with. So talk to talk to us about, you know, like, what do you what do you? You mentioned, it's like, what do you do? Who do you work with? And then what do you have for the audience? Because you said, Yes, like, you have something pretty cool for the audience, then we'll wrap up with some words of wisdom.

Sheila Wilkinson:

Sure. So yeah, I mean, I, you know, I get this question, like, what do you do? I'm like, whatever I want. Whenever

Jason Frazell:

you're like, you work with me,

Sheila Wilkinson:

you work with Sheila, that's how you get when you get you want to do whatever you want. You talk to me. I mean, I've been living on two continents since 2007. There's a reason why Brussels, including Brussels. Yeah, I love Brussels. I was a Belgium resident for four ish years, and how to business there, and I shut it down, because it was like, I don't actually need this business to do the thing that I want to do while I'm in Brussels. So I'm just gonna, like, get rid of this thing. That's just creating a bunch of stress for me. Yeah, I think, you know, for me, I help service space professionals and entrepreneurs, like, get their shit together, like I said earlier, you know, but they don't know what they're what they need to get together. Until they, they know it. Like they, they think that they know what the problem is. But that might not actually be the problem might be expectations, it might be processes, it might be all of this other stuff, you know, and I do that as a lawyer, as an attorney, licensed to practice in Louisiana, I do that as a business coach, I do that as a career coach, and I, you know, as a social worker, as well, you know, like not practicing clinical, but it's like transferring all of those skills and all that life experience. And then, as an educator, as well, I do a lot of continuing education, workshops, trainings, I go to organizations, you know, I've done stuff with FinTech I've done like all kinds of stuff, right? Like just going in and having a conversation about what it means to be you inside of this space. And showing up as, like as yourself, the way you want to show up, and to not make excuses for that anymore. You know, I think the happier more joyful people can be in their day to day is, the more the more that everyone benefits from that, you know, and I think the the business benefits, but also the people benefit, right? And so really, it's just about, you know, for me, it's about helping people figure out what their next step is, but also making sure you know, and how they're going to get there that like planning of getting there. And then the execution of it and supporting in that. And then also the just figuring out, like, what is your point A, and that happens as a lawyer, as a social worker, as a coach, as an educator, like, what is your point A, let's figure out what that is. And then let's figure out the direction that you want to go in, you know, so many people believe that they have to get to a destination. But it's not, right. Like, it's about what direction do you want to go and like, let's just get you on, like, you know, in the right direction, that kind of like, I wish people could see me, but they can't, but I use my hands a lot, you know. But I kind of liken it to driving two cars on a road at the same time. So like, you're in two lanes, two cars, and you got a foot in each of them, right, and you're just like driving along. And then one day, you just take your foot out of the car, you don't want to be in anymore, and you step fully into the other car. You know, I love that. And it's great and great visual weight and building that from a place of security and safety, and not from fear, you know, and clarity and who you are and what you want, why you want it so that you have the confidence and the courage to go and do the things and then the more you do them, the more clarity you get. And it's that cycle that continues to keep more clarity, more confidence, more courage, more clarity, more confidence, more courage, you know? So yeah, so one of the things that I do a lot working with clients is just helping them articulate the words like the things that they want, and articulate and teach them how to say the thing, right, prep them for that hard conversation or that easy conversation, maybe easy, but prepping them for that. And also writing the stuff with them. So create creating scripts that become yours that you can use again and again and again. So because I've been doing this for so long, and I've written so many scripts in my life, I'm like, why don't I just make this sentence don't think people can take in news, right? Yeah. So he created this like pack of scripts, like their templates with their copy, paste, right? There's like some prompts for where you like fill in your information. Yeah, but there's a pack of 10 ish like their 10 Plus. But one of them is the freedom to vacation. And the other is the freedom to focus. And so the freedom to focus like to use your auto responder as a way to communicate expectations to others, and clarify expectations that they can have a view. So that way you can actually focus and same thing with a vacation. It's like actually, like a three part where we use this script to like set expectations about deadlines, and when the last deadline is to expect something when you can actually, you know, request something of you, and then helping you, helping you with that transition time back into the office back into being in work mode. So that way, you don't feel that stress. So that way, you can actually enjoy your vacation. What and I know, I know, I'm telling you, it's like possible. It's very positive look, I live a very calm, gentle, loving life. And I'm very successful. Like, you don't have to live like that. Society tells us that we have to live that way. But we don't have to. So these scripts will be available. They are available now. So I'll make sure that you get the link for now. On my website. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Sheila.

Jason Frazell:

All right. Yeah, thank you so much for being on. I'm glad we made this happen. One last thing. It's tradition on the show, which I'm sure you know, if you've listened. All the way through is I love when my guests leave us with some words of wisdom. What do you got for us?

Sheila Wilkinson:

Words of Wisdom? Do they have to be mine? No. Okay. So

Jason Frazell:

well, the rules, they the contract that you signed says they should be. But if you want to break the contract, we'll do that. You can

Sheila Wilkinson:

do whatever you want, or you know about my love for contracts? Because you know, oh, my god, well, I should have answered that. Well, actually, contracts for me are processes. So let's but that's a different. That's a different podcast. We'll come back for that one. Yeah, we'll come around again, or I'll have you on mine. And then my contracts there. There you go. So my friend Anthony, Anthony Lemoyne. I'm just gonna call him out here. unsuspecting, he didn't know that he was saying this to me when he was saying it. But I was going through a pretty not good breakup separation. And he said to me, that we cannot expect of others what we expect of ourselves for there, and we will always find pain.

Unknown:

Oh, I love that. That's so true. That moment,

Sheila Wilkinson:

changed my life. It changed my life. Thank you. And I've spent the last 20 years exemplifying that. Right, like, yeah, all right. Now, how do we make this? Like, how do we put this into practice every day?

Jason Frazell:

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love expectations or what you either what you expect of others, or what you think that they expect of you without just having that conversation is? I think it's the death of relationships. I was married for 13 years, and I look at, you know, the 99.9% time that is perfect, because it's me we're talking about so obviously, it's just great being married to me all the time. But you know, like I look at it, it's usually miss. It's usually misaligned expectations. Yep. On either side. Or on or unmet needs or unset xpect unsaid unmet needs. Yeah, this is like we get into the get into all those. But Sheila, thank you so much. I'm looking forward to being on your podcast and you can teach me about processes because I don't love process.

Sheila Wilkinson:

Happily, I will happily do that. No, I think that's lovely. Awesome. Yeah. So much. Yeah, I appreciate it. It's definitely been good, you know, and so if anybody wants to connect with me, I'm on Instagram a lot. Sheila M Wilkinson are hanging out there. And you can also go to my website, and I think that's gonna be on the show.

Jason Frazell:

In the show notes. Yeah, perfect. And I feel remiss if we didn't wrap with another dad joke, I'm just feeling uh, do you have another one for us?

Sheila Wilkinson:

Um, oh. dad joke. Yes. I'll tell you another joke. I'll tell you another dad joke. Okay. What is white, black and white and red Oliver?

Jason Frazell:

A few. I've heard I've heard this one. Like something to do with a zebra I've heard but I don't I can't remember the punchline.

Sheila Wilkinson:

It's any variety of animal that's black and white. Like a penguin with a sunburn, right? So it can be a zebra with a sunburn. It can be a penguin with a sunburn. It can be a you know, yeah, I know. These are these are these are terrible.

Jason Frazell:

Enjoy. Troy fit dad CEO I'm gonna send it to you right after this call yeah right after the podcast thank you so much for being on

Sheila Wilkinson:

yeah thanks for having me I appreciate it i Sheila Hi