Michael Diettrich-Chastain - Founder and CEO, ArcIntegrated, Author of Changes

Jason Frazell: 0:12

My guest today is somebody that I know, which isn't always the case in the show, I'm really excited we're gonna have we're gonna have a chance to have a conversation in front of you all. It's Michael Dietrich chesty and Michael Dietrich chest stain, which is a mouthful, so I'm sure you've been told before. He's a best selling author. He's a leadership expert. He's a professional speaker. And he is the CEO of arc integrated to leadership development and organizational consulting firm based in the lovely state of North Carolina, specifically in Asheville. Michael, I'm so glad you're here. So glad we're making this happen. Welcome. Good to be here with you.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 0:46

Thanks for having me on.

Jason Frazell: 0:47

Yeah, we got a lot to talk about. We know each other. We're getting to know each other. We've We've spent a few hours together. So let's just have a conversation for the audience. I feel like you and I could probably have a four hour episode we'd barely get barely dig in. But we'll we'll try and do it in about 50 minutes today. So Michael, first things first, what's something you nerd out about? Oh, something

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 1:09

I nerd out about? Well, I've got something new that I've been nerding out about recently. Can't wait to hear it. Yeah, so I just got back last week from client trip to Chicago, where we were delivering a leadership development training program inside Virtual Reality guru and so this whole space of, of using virtual reality is a learning platform. Yeah, fascinating to me. And I think it's a direction that like, it's gonna have all sorts of applications in the years to come from, you know, from the learning arena to the therapeutic arena to the, you know, business development arena. I think it's gonna have all sorts of applications. But yeah, it's it's an area I'm learning about and teaching about and nerding out about. So there you go.

Jason Frazell: 1:55

I was I was picturing as you said, virtual reality. You're doing leadership development, you have two people that don't like each other, you're like, you can go virtually fight each other without actually creating an HR issue. So that's really, that's really cool.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 2:09

You know, what's wild about that, so I didn't know this until last week. So in in there's there's a game that we were utilizing, which is isn't really a game was designed by this company in the UK. And it's specifically for teaching leaders and teams about how to work in a peak performing way. And so it's designed with that in mind, but at my co facilitator and I were in there doing like a tech check the day before getting everything worked out. And we're in there and you, you take on these avatars, as you know, you can see each other inside the virtual reality. And so you can see each other waving hands and hands extended and all of that. So in the VR, we reached out, and we were trying to shake each other's hand. And our third facilitators watching this and he's got a camera. What's What's crazy about this is as we were trying to reach each other, in real space, we weren't facing each other. We were facing, like in a line. Oh, wow. So it looked like you know, I'm here and Bill, my partner's in front of me and we're both just doing this cruise. So from a design standpoint, makes sense, right, because it prevents people from clashing against each other even though your space, it seems like you're moving toward each other. You're not, man, it's not a try.

Jason Frazell: 3:18

I feel alright, we're gonna we're gonna scrap every question I'm gonna ask. We're gonna talk for 45 minutes about this specifically, we're not but I would like to use Oculus like what we're using as the hardware.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 3:28

Yeah, the hardware was Oculus. Yep. Software inside of it. It's designed for this question of leadership development,

Jason Frazell: 3:35

incredible leadership development in the metaverse. Yes, my new my next podcast will be around Metaverse and coaching and wow, that's so many questions for you, Michael, that I'm not going to ask you right now. We'll have a longer conversation about this some other time. Sure. Let's see. What's something that is inside of your comfort zone that you know is outside of somebody else's? And I'm just going to take it right off the table right now. Standing in front of a room doing workshops, speaking in front of large audiences, like you do. That's just it's just that's table stakes for what you do. So what What's something else that you're really comfortable doing that? You know, other people are not?

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 4:12

Hmm, yeah, I don't know why this is coming to mind. But I've gotten this feedback from other colleagues and partners in the context of teaching and certainly this is relevant to doing coaching work, doing therapy, which I did in my career years ago. And it's the ability to hold silence. So silence like makes a lot of people really uncomfortable. And I'm oddly really good at it. So don't play the silent game with me.

Jason Frazell: 4:45

Yeah, oh, I'm so glad you brought this thing up. If you would have asked if you would have talked to me about this four years ago, I would have been like, oh my god, that makes me so uncomfortable. Yeah, and you know this about me. I'm a leader to coach training program and Yesterday, I was facilitating for about an hour. And I asked a question. I sat there for almost two minutes. And I. And I said, Well, I actually don't care about it anymore. And I used I used to be in sales. So the kiss of death is actually talking too much. Yeah. And so and you know, it's like, it's like leadership development, but for new coaches, so similar, probably similar to some of the things you do, but will ask really confronting questions. And you can just watch them. And this is on this is virtual on Zoom. Just watch people, like what do people automatically do? Some people will look at the camera, some people will stare blankly at the camera. Some people will like, give you a weird little uncomfortable smile. Yeah. And I just sat there. And finally somebody spoke up. And I said at the end of this, these are people we've known each other for seven months. Now he spent a lot of time together. I said, for future reference. This entire leader team is not uncomfortable with silence. We'll sit here all day. Yeah, you go. Like, we'll sit here. Man, as a coach. I can sit here in silence all day. But yeah, I met the Jason four years ago to be like, Oh, that's so uncomfortable. You got to fill the silence on something.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 6:16

Yep. Yeah, it's it's a powerful tool, I think. And to your point, like it has application in a lot of places, right? Like, can use it and teaching and training and coaching and sales work I love, you know, talking is the kiss of death. It sure is in the context of sales sometimes.

Jason Frazell: 6:31

Yeah. Especially for an external processors like myself. You want to give us some space, and we will fill it. Yeah, if I'm on the receiving end if like you're my therapist, or my coach, and you say, Hey, Jason, and you give me a prompt that requires me to think and process. Just just sit there and I'm gonna give you more. I'm always gonna give you more.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 6:55

Yeah, that's good. That's good. I like I like working with and connecting with folks like that, that you know it because then it gives you material to riff on and to work with them. Yeah, yeah. So man, I got to ask you this quite. It's a great question. Lise. I like the nerding out question. I'm curious to hear how you how you would answer that. What is something that you're not about?

Jason Frazell: 7:18

My new nerd out? This is about a year. This is about? It's a little over a year now. And maybe the shows that um, I said this to somebody I said, Does this mean I'm officially middle age, I am obsessed with the Grateful Dead. And I never listened to the Grateful Dead or dead. You know, now it's dead in company, John Mayer's the, you know, the lead musician, there's Bob Weir, who was the original member of the band wanted to have the drummers. And this they recreated in 2015. I saw them live last summer. And I really liked him. And I saw him again, July 1, both times at the original site of Woodstock is called Bethel Woods Center for the Performing Arts stunning outdoor venue. Since that time, I believe that I've listened to well over 100 hours of live dead and company music on an app called nugs.net. So now as if you're listening, and you want to sponsor this episode, and it's it's kind of a problem, but in the best way possible. So now, when I want to relax, I leave to play guitar and play along or I will listen. And that's, and I'm a big music extent, like I have a very eclectic taste. I don't know that I've listened to anything else more than an hour besides then company in the last since July 1. I would say that that makes me a nerd. Yeah, that makes me a deadhead at this.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 8:37

That's cool. That's cool. Yeah, it's, I can appreciate it, man. There's definitely groups or musicians that I will dig into real real deep. Yeah, we actually we just saw concert a few weeks ago. I bet you'd like this guy. His name is Daniel champagne. And he's, he's solo. He's from Australia. But his his his guitar playing is really, really phenomenal. That's cool. He does he does stylistically he does that like kind of like slap guitar so so like,

Jason Frazell: 9:07

it's not Tommy, but it's not Tommy Emmanuel because Tommy Emmanuel is a master

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 9:11

that correct but stylistically that that kind of same genre. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you should check him out. Man. Danny would love to. Yeah,

Jason Frazell: 9:19

those those campaign. Yeah, yeah, he's probably he might be like a Tommy Manuel like disciple or something, though. I saw Tommy Manuel live in New York City a few years ago, blew my mind like the way he takes an acoustic guitar and makes it more than just an acoustic guitar. Same thing, right. Like using the different sounds on it. Because you asked me the other thing I will say is I went back I was at Bethel on Saturday night, and I think if I haven't officially become a middle aged person with music, I saw ZZ Top. Yeah. And Willie Nelson. Yes. And it was great. I'm like, these dudes are old. Really old. Still sound great. played great, but They're they look old. Although ZZ Top Billy Gibbons you can't even tell he still has the long beard of the sun. Yeah, I mean they're in their 70s. Right? Yeah. ZZ Top will dusty hill the the basis he died last year right for them went on tour. Billy Gibbons is 72 Willie Nelson. I'm like, yeah, he's in his 70s. He's 89 years old.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 10:20

Wow. And he's still jamming. He's still

Jason Frazell: 10:22

jamming. He looks at nine but you know, he sounds good. And he plays his his guitar trigger that he's, it's 1969. It's got a huge hole in it. It's like, it's really but it was incredible to get a chance to go to that show because he's Willie Nelson is at the age of like, this is this very likely could be the last time or maybe he lived to 110. Maybe marijuana is the key to living a long time. Who knows they're gonna go man, I really find love.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 10:46

I love being around and witnessing people that are otherwise deemed like, really, really old doing things that are like, totally, totally on. Unexpected. Yeah, super unexpected. Such a great, such a great reminder that, you know, there's more possible than we tend to

Jason Frazell: 11:05

believe. And also music is pretty timeless. I mean, Bob Weir, where the Grateful Dead is 74. Yeah, he's out there, rockin and rollin. He's the rhythm player for the debt and has been for 53 years. And he still thinks half the songs and does all that. Thanks for the question. I haven't had a chance to talk about this. This nerd nerd on the episode. So when I get there, people are either going to be really turned on or really turned off. Because I feel like a dad is either like, yeah, or what?

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 11:31

Yep, yep, you're exactly right. It's a polarizing thing. I think. Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 11:35

So Michael, going back to the I feel like a nominee. I feel like now I'm on the therapist chair. I feel like I need to take control back here. Like I'm fighting you. No, kidding. Kidding. No, I want to talk about something that is, you know, something's outside your comfort zone to somebody. You are a therapist in your previous life. You still, obviously that's still very applicable to what you do today. I call I call a lot of executive and leadership coaching business therapy. Sure. It's kind of a joke, but not really. Yeah, yeah. So that's so that was something you did before, like, you obviously done a lot of personal development work, you know a lot about the human mind. But so I'm really curious for you, what's something that is just outside your comfort zone, something that you either don't like doing, you're unwilling to do something that, you know, is something that other people really like to do?

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 12:21

Hmm. Let's see something that's outside. I'll give you a couple of answers. That one, one thing that comes to mind, because I was just talking about this to someone today, is it's it's a business development thing, actually. And, you know, the whole, me and his colleague and friend, were talking about the idea of, of niching down and the value of it. And I have done so much study Jason and got my own coaching around, you know, developing my own business, and you and I are even connected in that way. Yeah. And one of the messages that's so very clear, from all the experts out there is that the further down you niche, the faster you can scale, right. And even though that message has been given to me by so many people over the years, since I've, you know, entered into entrepreneur, on the entrepreneurial journey, which, you know, I'm whenever I started my business 2015. So a number of years, for whatever reason, I I like, conceptually get it, but I hold this resistance around it, then, you know, I'm I continue to unpack and so for whatever reason, that's a area of discomfort. I don't know, if it's like, if it's about the risk, or if it's about like the willingness to say, you know, here's the very specific area that I'm that I'm working within. Yeah. So that's, that's a that's an area of discomfort that comes to mind. But but you know, working on it.

Jason Frazell: 13:55

Yeah, very normal. Most people hate niching, because they see it as a weight that eliminates potential business. Mm hmm. And in a way it does. But, you know, through the community, we're connected through brandbuilders group. The truth of it is, if you and I will, I want you to use an example. I was having this conversation with somebody else they do. They're more of an implementation person. And they were we were working with him on what's his niche? And he had a few niches. And I said, but isn't your most of your business referral anyway? He's like, Yeah, so he's like, I want to nice because I want to become a thought leader in that space. I said, you can do that. Great. And do you think if you're a thought leader in health, like the health care, which is arguably the most complex organizational structures and legalities, do you think if somebody refers you to them, and they look at your website and it says health care that they're going to like automatically turn you out? It's unlikely because the power of like the warm referrals, the power of Hey Michael, really specializes in this industry and he's good at these other things. Most of us, our minds generally can put together the, the idea that Michael is good at a lot of things. So this is a good example. And you've heard this as call it she hands while you bang away at the brick you bang away at the brick. The brick is the thing you talk about. And then once you break through that, you talk about whatever the heck he wants, like Gary Vaynerchuk, Lewis Howes, Dave Ramsey, like Brene, brown like Brene, Brown is at the point now where she could write a book on like, how to grow the best plant you could grow and people would like sign up for the course on that, how to watch her Netflix special, she can talk about whatever she wants. Yeah. So it's, I just want to one normalize that. Because it's, especially when you're a servant, like you're you want to serve people you want to serve your community, it feels like, oh, I can't serve everybody I want to, but you can never serve everybody anyway. Exactly. And it also comes from it also, for most of us comes from a scarcity mindset, which most of us have myself included is like, oh, like, where's my next book, piece of business coming from? And if I niche down, then that person may see my website, and I do it. Right. But then the other flip side of that is somebody that's in your niche may see your website and be like, this is the person for me, and then that conversation becomes very easy.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 16:11

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I love that. And there's been, I can see that clearly, like the direct relationship between my ability to, like, operationalize my abundance in, in my thinking and actions and my desire and creativity around niching down and so yeah, no,

Jason Frazell: 16:29

I think, Man, I gotta say it, you just hit. It's Instagram award worthy. This may be book title worthy. operationalized my abundance? I love that. That's amazing, Michael. Yeah, well, I could

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 16:46

give you some examples of what I mean by that. Yeah, please. So like, I think a good example, I just did this recently. And I think anything is an opportunity, like for any of us in business, is finding, you know, had I had a prospect, call that with a potential client. And it was really like talking to them, I could definitely help them. And it was outside of the, like, direct area that I want to be working in. And I also know that there are other people in my network, that would be really great fits for them. And so I referred them out to a couple other other folks knowing that, you know, I probably could have helped them probably would have been, you know, enjoyable, but it wasn't like, it wasn't like exactly where I where I want to be in. And so I think that's an example of like, operationalizing abundance. The Nautilus example is, you know, we're in the midst like building the team right now. At arc integrated, and my commitment to them is paying it's uh, you know, we're doing like a, like a contractual model subcontractor model. So but my point to them is to pay them beyond far beyond what typical day rates are for executive coaching and training and development work, which in that world, there's like, There's typical rates. Yeah, but my my commitment is, we're going to be paying him quite a bit more than that. So I think that's, like an example of operationalizing abundance.

Jason Frazell: 18:06

I love that. It's like the tech model. And most of the good, most of the good tech companies out there, they pay well above market rate, because they understand that that investment is you get the best facilitators and coaches in such in the world to do that, which then allows you to go into these companies and create a phenomenal experience, which then allows you to get referred, and it's just it, it all pays it forward. Very cool. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, good stuff. Yeah. So Michael, your speaker, speak on big stages, big and small stages. Speak on podcast? Yeah, I spend, for example, right now, right? give you five minutes, you could speak to us about anything you'd like to? What would you what would you talk about? And what would you want us to walk away with? And specifically do what's your call to action?

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 18:55

Um, so I'm working on this new concept? Well, no, I'm hesitating. Because I don't know if I'll just say this. It's a new idea for a book. So it may? Well, I'll tell you, I'm passionate about this idea. So book aside, I think it's a relevant topic. Yeah. So I think in the context of leadership development, which is the work that we're in right now, and my firm, you know, we're always we're always either doing one on one executive coaching or on helping leaders build skills like emotional intelligence, communication, conflict, resolution, clarity of their culture, their mission, like all the things from a, from a human standpoint, and we know create improved bottom lines. So that's the work that we're in. I think both at the companies scale, the community scale, and maybe at the global scale. There is there is a skill set that I think the world needs right now. And it's the idea of holding paradox. Meaning that so so many problems that we see that leaders in organizations and we certainly see evidence of this on the on the grants scale can come down to the fact of the inability to hold two truths together. Yep. Right, me as a leader, right? If I'm, I can have an employee that is an outstanding performer. And maybe they're super toxic for the organization. So we, you know, we need to let them go, it doesn't mean they're not a good performer, right? The contrary is true, right? We're doing our business is doing really, really well. And, you know, we've got a culture that needs all a lot of attention. So we need to direct energy to that, right, and employee makes a big mistake. And you know, they're also really worth developing in, right, they're worth they're worth putting energy, time, money and resources into not just they made a mistake, so we need to eliminate them. Right. I think it's, you know, in so many ways, this idea of holding paradox can be helpful in decision making, it can be helpful in conflict resolution, and can be helpful in creative thinking about what solutions are available to us. And certainly at the at the grand scale at the global scale. You know, we see all this polarization of pick a topic, right? You've got these anything, these extremes that are going, yeah. And so and I think the answer to that is being able to hold paradox, right? It's being able to hold the fact that, yes, this person might have drastically different views than me around politics or, or, you know, you know, economy or whatever, but I can still love them as a human. You know, I can, I can still appreciate their ideas, I can still navigate, you know, dialogue with them without seeing them as other or seeing them as the enemy. And that that is the solution to that is the ability to hold multiple truths at the same time. So anyway, that's that's the that's the topic that's been top of mind for me recently.

Jason Frazell: 21:53

Great. What's your when's the book coming out? I'm kidding. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, oh, my God, what I heard it all that you have a pre order link for us. Is that what you're what I'm hearing? Yeah, that's great. Yeah, stay tuned. That's a great topic. It's something the way we train that with coaches in the is, we call it a black or white context. It's a context most of this context of most of us, myself included, like you're actually taught as a child, things are good or bad, or they're right or they're wrong. This is the right you know that the education system teaches you that this is the right way to do this, this is the wrong way to do this. And then we bring that and then in business, for somebody, like somebody who's worked well, you you have, you know, advanced degrees, most of those are built on, this is the right way to do this, this is the wrong way to do this. So it's a very, it's just like a very normal thing. But I will I will share with you here before we go to the commercial break. That really resonates for me, because I'm somebody who really grew up with a pretty black or white Peridot, like, I was not somebody and I was generally in my business career not very good at holding a paradox. It was a kind of like, and also I'm somebody who's quite sure themselves. So it'd be like, Oh, once I landed on, like, that's the thing. I was hard to knock off that box. And it's something that I've really worked on with my coach and through my development. And I gotta tell you, I'm having a lot more fun now. Do like, oh, yeah, like, yeah, like it could be this. But like, what would the way we call this is? What's the gold? What's the goal? Hey, you're talking to somebody and you're like, I'm not aligned to this person at all? What's the goal in the conversation? What's the goal in their perspective? The goal may be the gold sometimes might just be I'm even more convinced of my stance now based on how they brought it up. But at least you you're like, open up to like something else being there. Super cool. Much needed. While she might do you speak on this, do you have a speech written about this?

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 23:50

No. I mean, no, not not all, like flushed out.

Jason Frazell: 23:54

Now the answer is the end. Yeah. Michael, the answer is not yet. That's that's the correct that's the that's the correct answer. I was looking for I was getting Yeah. No, that's great. Yeah, thank Well, thanks for bringing all this so far. It's been really awesome. We're gonna take a brief commercial break, we'll be right back.

Unknown: 24:09

The talking to cool people podcast is brought to you buy Jason for sell coaching. Jason works with amazing people who are looking to find and develop their passion and purpose and create their journey to wherever it is they want to go. Check us out at Jason frazell.com, Facebook or on Instagram. Jason loves hearing from anyone who thinks it would be cool to connect, to be coached, or to be a guest on our show. email him at podcast at Jason frazell.com or DM him on Facebook and Instagram. And now, back to some more amazing conversation on talking to cool people.

Jason Frazell: 24:50

Michael, what do we know about you so far? We know that you, therapist, you run your own cut you decided you were gonna go Don't be crazy and go start your own thing. Instead of like riding off into the sunset with a career that's Prop was probably quite fulfilling, quite loose, you know, like a career that like there's always going to be people that need what you do. You're never going away. And you founded your own company, you do work with corporations and businesses, we know you're an author. So Michael, what else do you want us to know about you?

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 25:26

Yeah, well, I've got, I've got an idea related to what we were just talking about both in the context of VR, which we were talking about earlier, as well as holding paradox. And so yeah, this idea, this idea of about share has been something I've been noodling on for the last year. And so we've been in this space of learning and developing programming around virtual reality to take to leaders to help improve leadership and culture, workplace culture and team performance. And I see that as a, like a kind of a kind of a bleeding edge of like Technology and Innovation and Learning styles. And I love that, like, I'm someone that embraces change, and embraces innovation and embraces newness and tech, it's fascinating to me. And part of that is based on the fact that we're in this rapid time of change, and that that's just going to accelerate, and then in the years to come. So I think it, it only is a benefit to us to understand how how things are changing, right, as as teachers and as learners. And at the same time, at ARC integrated, we're also working on a retreat concept that is the opposite of that. And so while I hold this belief of innovation, and tech and changing and how we learn and grow as humans, I also believe that ancient wisdom and tradition can teach us just as much. And so things like, you know, meditation and connection to nature, and martial arts practices, and you know, many other kinds of traditions that have been in human existence for a long time, and can tell us things about, you know, how we can grow and improve. And so this retreat that we're working on is going to be kind of the kind of the opposite of the bleeding edge tech is going to be a retreat. And in Costa Rica, it's happening next year in April. And it's going to be much about, you know, creating a forum of leaders that will go through experiences in nature and experiences and movement and experiences in meditation, all with the same outcome in mind, which is how do we get better? And how do we create, you know, peak performing conditions within our organizations through understanding ourselves at a higher level?

Jason Frazell: 27:34

Wow, that sounds very cool. And Costa Rica, to good yeah.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 27:39

Coast have you been? No,

Jason Frazell: 27:41

but I, I have a friend who moved down there during the pandemic and is still there. And I have a lot of, you know, I live in the similar space you do. I have a lot of friends who run like ayahuasca and medicinal journeys in Costa Rica. And one of them. I don't think they're a part owner of a retreat center. So yeah, like, I've just heard nothing but good things about Costa Rica. This just seems to be the place that a lot of people go to do this sort of work. And it's a great play. And it's got this, it sounds like it's got this great condition. It's also not that hard to get to from the United States, which makes it really useful.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 28:14

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I think it's, it's relatively easy. And yeah, it's it's one of the few Blue Zones in the world. And yeah, I think it's gonna be wonderful. I'm really, really excited about so yeah. So you ask the question about like, what else? Yeah, people might like to know, I think that that idea of the combination of what can we learn about the innovations and changing of our modern world? Well, combining the lessons and wisdom, of ancient to ancient tradition is is an area that I like to kind of hold that

Jason Frazell: 28:45

paradissa. That's a cool, yeah, it's cool. That's very cool. I'm, I'm the same way, leaving a lot of like this old things. A couple that you know, this about me, I'm a big technology person. I spent 20 years working in technology, sales. I love technology. I'm an early adopter and a bunch of stuff, which is an expensive hobby, expensive. But it's a lot of fun, too. So Michael, we turn the reins over to you. Let me get out my box of Kleenex let me lay down on the couch here. No, we're not doing therapy. We're just doing a podcast. What would you like to ask me?

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 29:19

I'd love to ask you the question. Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 29:21

What would you like to ask me that I can answer for everybody listening.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 29:24

I'd love to do it at random. Are you up for some some totally random your question? You're talking to the right person,

Jason Frazell: 29:29

my friend. Yeah, I'm totally. I love that. I never, by the way, for anybody listening. I never know what my guests are going to ask me. These are never pre planned. I have no idea what's coming. Yeah.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 29:40

So I actually don't know either. So I'm gonna I'm going to use this card deck of cards. Yeah. Cool.

Jason Frazell: 29:46

All right. We're going to talk about we're going to tell we're going to tell the audience listening. What's your about actually, would you tell the audience what you're about to do? Because I have these you sent them to me and they're amazing.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 29:56

Yeah, yeah. So so we use these cards. It's a deck of a 49. Line questions. No, there we go autofocus there changes cars, right. So there's 49 questions. And here's, here's one that might be relevant for us right now. You know, how would you like to spend? Is that coming through? Jason?

Jason Frazell: 30:12

Yeah. Would you like to change about where you spend your time online? You want to do so? Yeah, your change questions?

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 30:18

Yeah, yeah. So

Jason Frazell: 30:19

what I'm gonna do is shuffle, shuffle these up, and I'm gonna also work on bottom, I'm gonna work on my bottom lining skills. I'm gonna answer them very succinctly.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 30:26

Yeah, so I'm going to pull them at random and to give to give you a sense, like the way we use these. So like, recently, I was at a speaking at a conference in Chicago, a couple months ago, and we did an entire conference session where at the beginning of the conference, this is with 200 plus people. We facilitated a, what we call a question swap. Everybody has a card, they're shuffling around the room there? Well, we teach them how to do it. First, they have the card, they find a buddy, they ask the question, to answer the question, they swap cards, now I have a new card, and I raised my hand, I go find another person. And what it does is it inserts a ton of energy into the room into the conference, it gives people a deep connection with one another in rapid time. And then they've got a tool that they can use to connect with each other for the rest of the conference. We've done this a bunch of times, and it's always a massive hit as you love as you might imagine, like someone that you know, I know, you help design large experiences, and you certainly attended many conferences like oh, yeah, so you know, the importance of creating community. Yeah, and this is a tool for that. And so that's one of the applications. We also use them a ton with executive teams, trying to break down barriers, trying to think more creatively about how to solve solution, you know, solve problems as a team. And then and then we use them in one on one conversations. And so that typically on podcast is kind of we're gonna model this

Jason Frazell: 31:49

live, and I have no idea what questions ago this is. I mean, you're speaking my language. Michael, this is like, my favorite thing to do is let's improv some stuff. Let's just Let's get after. This is great. I'm excited. Yeah, yeah.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 31:58

So yeah, so I don't know this question is gonna be, but here it is. See? What's that? What's

Jason Frazell: 32:02

that? It is, what's one thing you'd like to change about your home or work environment? Oh, that's an easy one. I would less like I would like less children's toys on the floor when I get home from work.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 32:14

All right. All right. How about this one, this is gonna be a little harder. I don't know what it is. But I know this category is harder.

Jason Frazell: 32:21

What is the fear you have? And how might you replace it with a different belief? I have a fear that I'll never be in as good a shape as I know, I could be based on my current habits. And the different belief would be that I'm actually quite healthy. Or it's I'm good enough.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 32:45

Love it. Love it. Alright, one more rapid fire do it.

Jason Frazell: 32:50

Who do you know? That is very courageous, and why? And, and a lot of courageous people. Yeah. I'm gonna call out somebody that I know. Her name is Allison Daniels. And she is somebody that I got to know last week, she is in oncology. She spent a lot of time and she's an oncology nurse. She has done a lot of hospice work and a lot of palliative work. So she has seen a lot of people transitioning to their, to the next thing out of their out of their life. In other words, she's seen a lot of people die, and she was sharing in the environment I was in, she was sharing some stories about how a lot of the things that she's seen are preventable. And it's, and it's, it's a message that is a little dissonant for some people. And I want to acknowledge her and say she's very courageous, because saying that, to her audience is very confronting for people that this could have been to say, this could have been prevented. I'll just be very clear what she said. She said, I've seen a lot of people die not well, like the end of their life was not pleasant for them for their families. It was did not go well. And even if you're going to pass like we all are, there's ways to make that experience better for everybody. Even when you are sick. Even when you do have cancer. There's there are some things you can do. So one, I think she's really courageous for going out and being willing to say that because that's a very confronting topic.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 34:21

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I don't know if she listens. But if you do, Allison, Awesome work. Thanks for doing what you do. Yeah, that's she listens to this man. I hope she can handle it. That's

Jason Frazell: 34:31

it. I feel like I need to talk to the owner of arc integrated about sponsoring this podcast and have the changes card changes cards section. Every episode. This is fun. Yeah, I'm being mostly kidding. But truth in comedy. Would you like to sponsor the podcast going forward? No, that's really that's really fun. I might, I might start to throw that in with some my guesses. I'm going to pull up a random question. I want you to answer it. Just a spicy I was like, oh, it's cool. Very cool. So for everybody listening again. We'll put the link in the show notes, that was the really cool there little circles or yellow circles. And all Michael did there is he he pulled one out randomly. You didn't even look at it, you held it up to the camera and I read it and then answered it for you. That would be I know, not everybody likes that sort of thing. But I love that sort of stuff. So thank you for bringing that. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you for doing that. Very thanks for being willing to take a risk. Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, Michael, what's the thing you're most proud of?

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 35:27

The thing I'm most proud of? Gosh, I don't know. No, no. You know, I always struggle with questions like that. And you know, when people when asked about time, would ask questions like that, like, What's your favorite food? What's your favorite movie? What's your favorite thing? I don't know. For me, it's my fear of commitment.

Jason Frazell: 35:47

Yeah, what's the paradox where what's the paradox play in real time right now?

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 35:51

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you one thing I'm I'm proud of that comes to mind. Yeah, is I was just talking to a client about this. We were getting ready to go to Michigan to facilitate a multi day program for some leaders at a company up there. And I designed a program that is the intersection between emotional intelligence development as a leader and development of coaching skills as a leader. And I think that that intersection is is, you know, maybe maybe intuitive for some people, but I think unique, very unique for a lot of folks like, like drawing the lines of connection between the two is, is a unique approach. And so So I think when it comes to designing content and models, and, you know, teaching methods, I feel confident and proud of, you know, some of the some of the things that I've designed and that's, that's one of the programs that comes to mind.

Jason Frazell: 36:47

Yeah, I love that. I know, you work with a lot of really impactful, mission driven companies. And I'm just really present to the fact that all of us out here who buy those products or services, part of the reason they're so well done is likely could be because while not could be, it's possible that your team has had a hand in that work. Like how to make the cultures better. Very cool. That's very cool.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 37:13

Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah, we? Yeah, there's always there's always a team, right? There's always a team behind behind the scenes. And yeah, yeah. Thanks for your question. What about you, man? Where are you? What are you proud of my family? we're most proud of you.

Jason Frazell: 37:27

Family. Question my family. Okay, there you go. It's the answer that every single guest I think your episode, I think your guests like 137 on the show. And then I have another tech show. I don't ask it on the tech show. But every single person who has children will say their family. I don't I've never heard anybody who I know has a family. Say that. So it's also a good indicator for the listeners to know whether somebody has a family or not.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 37:51

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's, that's fair. I don't I don't have children. You see, and

Jason Frazell: 37:55

I didn't I actually, I didn't know that about you. But I mean, at the end of the day, for those who have children, like, that's what actually matters and seeing them, and we have young kids, but even seeing our six year old, she's like a little human. Yeah, insights and opinions. And sometimes they're annoying, but she's very astute, and like, really brings up a lot of really cool things. That's thing I'm most proud of hitting the I'll just continue on, like, outside of the, you know, the family. Definitely the business that I've built. Hmm, I have a really unique business where I do a number of different things. You know, we've we met through one of the ways I do things, but most people go like, what do you do? And I'm like, Well, today I'm doing this and tomorrow, I'm doing that, but it all actually flows together really well. And if you and if you were to and if you were to take a look at the disparate things I do, you might say that like how, but the way I've put it together just it really works for me really well. And the output of that is likely that it works pretty well for most of the people out not everybody but most of the people I work with it works well for It's interesting you know this like I you know, I do I do brand strategy work. Last week I was in Nashville doing brand strategy work. Tomorrow, I'm meeting with three founders to coach them one on one like each of them one on one about, you know, like, whatever we're going to, I don't even know what we're going to coach about, right? Like coaching was one of the fun things is you don't know what they're gonna show up with. We don't pre plan it. Today, I'm recording three podcast episodes. Oh, cool. Thursday, I'm doing something completely different than those two things. Just, I'm really I'm really proud of leaning into who I want to be in the world and like, finding the ways to do that. Whether it be doing work for others working for myself, and that's the thing I'm most proud of now. I love it.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 39:42

I love it, man. Yeah, it's I think that's one of the most rewarding things about the entrepreneurial journey, right is that it kind of kind of ebbs and flows on our shoulders, right. Like we are allowed to create such, you know, such complexity in our schedules and such simplicity in our schedules and it's, there's so much autonomy Yeah, so let me ask you the cast you one other follow up question?

Jason Frazell: 40:03

No. Yes.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 40:05

Well it sent you know, since this might be a question you could ask the future guests to about family about the about the most proud. So regarding your your you sent you one daughter is that right?

Jason Frazell: 40:15

I have a daughter and a have a six year old daughter and a one year old son.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 40:19

Okay so for the six year old since she since she's you know a little more developed what is one thing that you are so surprised by when you think about you know, watching watching her grow? Well, yeah.

Jason Frazell: 40:32

Her background she she goes to a Montessori school. Oh, cool. That's yeah, her ability to create things. She's very artistic, which is fun. My wife's artistic I'm, I'm only artistic and some musician ways but not in like, you know, like markers and all those things. That's the first thing comes to mind. But now that I say it, the thing that I'm actually most blown away is her proficiency with the English language. Ca she she really knows how to phrase quite complex things. And it's happened over the last year. I think it's partially like, my wife and I are both communicators for a living. So she's probably got some of that DNA. But also like the quality of education she received over the last year just, I can have conversations with her. It's almost like I'm talking to an adult, it's actually a better conversation than with some adult like she's really quite good at expressing things intellectually and emotionally. Of course, she's a six year old. So there's a lot of emotions, but it's really fun. That's so incredible. I love having conversations with her. Like she can tell me why she likes something. And she'll tell me why. Why or she does or does not like something in a way to dealt with it not because it's you know, not because I like the colors. It's like, I don't like the show blog, or I really liked this. I really liked this magazine, because and she will list out a list of things. I'm like, you've actually thought about this. And this makes sense. While she probably didn't think about it, but yeah, it's super fun.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 42:00

That's what a great Gosh, what a what a great answer. And I mean, I'm gonna guess some at least some of that sophistication has to do with her wonderful parents

Jason Frazell: 42:08

high. It's all her now. What I'm uncomfortable with is taking any sort of compliments. So it's definitely all her mother. No, yeah, we tried. We tried. She's a great kid. We tried to do the job. My wife's amazing. Thank you. So cool. Class. Yeah.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 42:22

Thanks for sharing. That's super cool. Thanks, man.

Jason Frazell: 42:25

Yeah, how do you see the world? Your liking is a paradox. It's black or white? That'd be an amazing answer.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 42:33

Right now I'm looking at some blue ocean mountains and some trees. And I got this beautiful bay window in front of me.

Jason Frazell: 42:38

Oh, I like the literal answer here. How do you see the world? I see it through my eyes. Through my

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 42:43

eyes? How do I see the world? What it adds? It's an open question. I see it as opportunity. I see it as, you know, pain. And you know, I was just talking to somebody recently about the nature of suffering and how, like, there's so much opportunity in that another paradox, right. Yeah, you know, the more we can lean into suffering that the more opportunity lessons growth there is in that. So you know, I certainly I don't see, I don't see the world as like, all puppy dogs and rainbows. But I do see it as opportunity. And I see some of that a lot of that comes from the hard stuff. Yeah, you know, the heart the hard stuff. And so I see it that way I see it as evolving. I think and in particularly right now we're in this bizarre time in human history where a lot of the experiences that human beings are having are unlike, you know, all the humans before us 1000s of years in the making. And so I think we're in like this bizarre time. And, you know, I I think there's a lot of there's a lot of like chaos and disorder and and awful things that are going on in the world. Yeah. And I'd like to believe that our perspective on those things is what can help pull us out of those things. Meaning meaning that you know, if if we only see the darkness then that you know that oddly perpetuates things right. But if we see the darkness and we're able to see all the good in the world and all the all the opportunity in the in the in our influence on it, I think I think that will take us in a different direction and it didn't it does it feels like we're at this like Crossroads you know, and it does certainly not you know unique in that opinion. Yeah. Yeah, so I think it's really important to to see like all the goodness and it's hard right it's hard to pull that out because I think a lot of what we're what we're shown over the course of news and social media and advertisement and all this is like the darkness you know the things that are going wrong the things that we need eight are suffering the you know the awful events that are happening like but that's that's like a slice of the pie. There's a lot more high.

Jason Frazell: 45:02

Yeah. Our friend Rory Vaden. I know, you know, I know. I think it was him. He had this thing that just really blew me away. We were talking about journalism and media. And he said, they're not in the information and education business. They're in the attention business. 100% Attention business. Yep. Fluff stories. What's gone right today? Yeah, those things don't sell. Nobody needs nobody tunes in for those. Unfortunately, we tune in for the, and whatever. I'm talking about social media to like, that's, it's not that interesting. I mean, yeah, it should be more interesting. It's interesting to some people, but overall, it doesn't sell, which is a real bummer.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 45:45

Yeah, yeah. Agreed. I don't I don't see news channels as, as platforms of truth finding. Well, maybe

Jason Frazell: 45:53

Infowars. But maybe, maybe Alex Jones, Mr. Might be going out of business, hopefully going out of business not to get too political. That's a whole different episode.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 46:08

Yeah, right. Right. How about how about you? What do you when you think about the world? What comes to mind for you

Jason Frazell: 46:12

actually see it as a very? I liked a facilitator coach conversation we're having. Yeah, it was okay. Keep going bounce. Great. No, I love it.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 46:22

Curious about about it. You know, like, Yeah, I'm curious about your perspective.

Jason Frazell: 46:26

Yeah, I see the world is filled with possibilities for most people, not all. Well, I believe there's possibility for everybody. I believe the gradient for some people is much harder. bordering on, you're really got to have something change, either inside of your act or external factors. Yeah, pretty religious. really real? Right. Yeah. I mean, let's be clear, you and I both work in industries that are luxury items, you know, coaching leadership that but yeah, well, luxury items in that you have to generate enough money to hire a coach privately or you have to work on brand strategy or you want to run a podcast Are you want to bring in leader companies that are about to go out of business don't generally spend a ton of money on training and leadership development? They spend it on? Like, how do we keep the doors open? Or they don't spend it? Like they tighten their belts? Right? Like, yeah, yes, that's what I that's what I mean by that. But the world is for most people possibility I see the world as a place that I think most people are good. Most people are good. And one thing that's been a big breakthrough for me in my personal development work is relating to people is doing the best with the tools they have. Yeah, I love it. And I don't know if that's something that I don't know if that's something as a you know, as a trained therapist that comes up. But when you expect everybody to have the same level. One, not everybody thinks the same as you that's a big breakthrough to have is like, Oh, your opinions, not the only opinion to this goes to the paradox thing. And to that a lot of people, most people are only operating with the tools they've been given most of the time. And some people have been given a lot of tools that don't use them. Some people have been given the tools and weaponize them. Give me an example. Like I think Putin, somebody who is a brilliant human person who has figured out how to use it for evil and manipulation. Hitler was the same way. Yeah, that's really good at getting people to believe things. And then I do believe that, I do believe that when you relate to people, as most of the time having best intentions, it's easier to actually meet in the middle and remove those paradoxes. Yeah, but not always, some people you cannot work with. Some people just are unwilling and that that's actually that's okay. But I also feel a little sorry for them sometimes, because there's just a lot more possibility. And I'm somebody who lived that. And I was never like, you know, like, dead set in my ways. But I've definitely moved to the Oh, what's this fun gray area we get to play in here? Yeah, yeah. What's outside of the way this has to go? That can be really unique and fun.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 48:54

Yeah, man. Absolutely. Yeah. I love that. And it's such a, it's such a more helpful place to start, right? When we assume you know, people are doing their best and they have good intentions. And they're, they're working within the constructs and tools that they have, like, an easier place to begin from. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate what you're what you're saying.

Jason Frazell: 49:14

Nice. So Michael, let's, let's wrap here. Let's talk a little bit about arc integrated, changes the book, just put all this. We'll put all this information in the show notes as well. People can download it. I have the book I have the cards, super cool stuff. How can people connect with you and connect with the team?

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 49:32

Sure. Yeah. Check out our website. There's a ton of information on that. It's aarC integrated.com. And we do a lot of you know, a lot of writing on all things leadership development, workplace culture, team performance. So our blogs pretty active. Lot on social media, you can find me you know, my, my obnoxiously long name on all the

Jason Frazell: 49:50

platforms, not just the long name.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 49:54

Yeah, you can find that pretty easily integrated as well on all the platforms and Yeah, if any of this resonated with folks always happy to connect for, you know, for a chat if there are, you know, leaders that are listening and are curious, like, how do we how do we create really healthy, profitable cultures? Within our company? How do you develop, you know, leaders or junior leaders? Always happy, happy to dialogue about that? Yeah,

Jason Frazell: 50:17

let's do it. Also, perhaps in the very near future meet on VR? Yeah, that was my first podcast episode via VR where we're sitting in a studio. I don't think that's too far away at all

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 50:28

it man. It's, it's coming way faster than people think.

Jason Frazell: 50:34

Yeah. It'll be sooner sooner than later this, this show will move. The challenge with that it was a remote podcast, we both like if you and I both have an Oculus, which my wife works at Metis. So getting an Oculus is not a hard thing for me. And if you got one too, that would be hey, let's do this. Pyat. Let's do this podcast on VR. The challenges, we both have to have the technology and have it working? Yeah, it just creates a whole new layer thing. But like for somebody, like we'll have you back, we should actually do that sometime. Because we have an Oculus. To like, I think for for people that have it working, it would be great for people that don't yet have working to be a logistical nightmare.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 51:12

Well, the cool thing, and obviously talk further about this, but like during our session I mentioned and with this client, you know, we had the people in VR. And then for folks that happen to be outside of the gaming component. Yeah, we were projecting what what the players were doing onto a big screen. So you could see if even if you were outside of it, what was happening in real time. So for instance, I say that because if you were to do a podcast in VR, you and I could be inside it and it could be projected to a screen that's recording and then that's the recording that lives wherever YouTube is so

Jason Frazell: 51:46

great. Yeah, that I think we've I think we've just, I think we've just figured something out we are going to do and it's not going to be before long before we do this. There's got to be a way to do this. You and I are like the perfect people to actually do this. I love technology. I'm good at technology. You're good with it. You've already done this in a in a thing. Alright, yeah. Tune in soon for the first VR podcast episode with Michael Dieter Chasteen. And Jason. Love it. Love it. Nice, Michael. Well, so good. We finally got a chance to make this happen. We've known each other a few months, it's been a real pleasure having you on, really appreciate the questions you gave me on. I've loved the improv around the changes cards, I was really fun. I think that I think that's going to be something we're going to that you're going to hear more of on the show. Now, leave us with some last short and sweet words of wisdom you want everybody to walk away with? Hmm.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 52:38

Yeah, so I think what I would, I would say, to circle back to leadership development, you know, there's there's often some confusion around what it is and what it isn't. And, you know, the reality is, is that there's been so much, you know, too many decades of research about what an effective team looks like, what effective leadership look like, looks like how do you create a workplace culture that's engaged, and excited and really profitable. Like, all of that is very clear. There's not a mystery around how to do this. So it's simple, it's just not easy. And so my encouragement is for any, you know, any folks that are leaders out there, or even working at a company at at, you know, at a level in which you're not leading, there are really good ways to create highly engaged and profitable cultures. It's, it's not a mystery. And so my encouragement is, you know, reach out if you'd like to talk and there's, you know, there's a ton of encourage people to look at the research. Yeah, there's people who look at the research, like, looks like study, study, you know, people that, you know, like conscious leadership, for instance, or Yeah, you know, conscious business, you know, study these things, study, people like Brene Brown, who has awesome literature on, you know, vulnerability and shame and guilt study, you know, people like Amy Dr. Amy Edmondson out of Harvard, who is the, you know, front runner in the term psychological safety, which we know is the number one predictor of effective team performance across, you know, geography or, you know, size of company. So, yeah, encourage people to read up on it and to connect if they'd like.

Jason Frazell: 54:08

Yeah. Michael, thank you so much for being on. Keep doing what you're doing over there. Best wishes to you the rest of the team and can't wait to have you back on and you'll be doing this in virtual reality sooner than later. We'll be sitting in a virtual studio sooner than later.

MIchael Diettrich-Chastain: 54:21

Awesome. Love it. Yeah. Thank you, Jason. It's a pleasure to connect man like thanks for.

Unknown: 54:27

Thanks for listening to another episode of talking to cool people with Jason for Zell. If you enjoyed today's episode, please tell your friends. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook, and give us a shout out or take a moment to leave a review on iTunes. If something from today's episode pique your interest and you'd like to connect, email us at podcast at Jason frazell.com. We love hearing from our listeners because you're cool people too.