Talking to Cool People w/ Jason Frazell

David Carpenter - CEO of Gamiotics, Former Broadway Producer

August 17, 2022 Season 3 Episode 31
Talking to Cool People w/ Jason Frazell
David Carpenter - CEO of Gamiotics, Former Broadway Producer
Show Notes Transcript

David shares his journey from producing successful shows on Broadway to being a tech founder, his passion for being a dog and cat daddy and what his super power is that he keeps on leaning into.

"Whenever someone says to you, oh, you must be passionate about this, in a condescending voice, Ignore it."

David Carpenter has spent 22 years in media and entertainment. He is an experienced Off-Broadway and Broadway producer, Multiplatform content developer, and has worked extensively in sales and marketing. David is currently the Founder and CEO of Gamiotics, Inc which is bringing audience engagement technology to the live entertainment market and powering the next generation of experiential entertainment. He is proud to be a partner and CEO in Session Zero LLC along with Sarah Davis Reynolds and David Andrew Laws.

He was the lead Producer of 2019 Broadway run of critically acclaimed Slava’s Snowshow.

David the Off-Broadway hit comedy: Puffs, which ran in NYC for three years and is now the #2 most produced play in the country. Additional credits include: Executive Producer of Puffs: Filmed Live Off-Broadway, released nationally through Fathom Events. Producer of Puffs in Australia for two years in Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane and the Publisher of all four editions of the the Puffs script.

He is a former DreamWorks Theatricals Executive overseeing Shrek the Musical sales operations.

Www.Gamiotics.com
https://www.facebook.com/carpenterpantz
http://www.instagram.com/@carpenterpantz
https://www.facebook.com/carpenterpantz
http://linkedin.com/in/david-edward-carpenter

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Jason Frazell:

My guest on the show today is David Carpenter, CEO of game biotics. And good afternoon Hyah. however you say it over there, you're gonna hear David is a fellow American, but he's not currently in America. One of the beauties of doing this podcast is I get to talk to people from around the world, and also people who are from very close to me who are in a different place in the world. So good afternoon, David, how are you today?

Unknown:

I'm great. How you doing? Jason?

Jason Frazell:

I am doing fantastic. So where are you coming in from?

Unknown:

So I'm currently in Edinburgh, Scotland, I am at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, August we're doing a product release for something that's associated with my software company. So I am, I am here, making sure I'm making sure that everything is going well. And today is today happens to be my one day off that I get within the entire month. So I'm actually really happy to be here because I don't have to think about this. I don't have to be doing the show today.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah. Well, I'm flattered. You're making time for us to do even come on a podcast, I would probably have not done anything or go to the pub or what

Unknown:

would fit perfectly because I didn't have to leave my flat. Right. So it was nice, right? Like, this is perfect. I don't have to go anywhere. It's great. Yeah,

Jason Frazell:

yeah. Well, I'm so glad you're with us. I'm so glad you were able to make the time we're gonna get right into it. And the last thing I want to say before we start is, as soon as we got on, I said, this is gonna be a fun interview because you're wearing a Star Wars shirt. And anybody who knows anybody who's a fan of the show knows that I'm a Star Wars fan. I've talked to some guests about Star Wars versus Star Trek. And that's been a that's been a thing for few guests. And I'm seeing Star Wars although I liked Star Trek, but I'm a huge Star Wars fan. And I've had a lot of fun assimilating my six year old into the Star Wars universe.

Unknown:

Oh, it's so great. Like you have to start taking your through Clone Wars. But you're just beginning get through that first season and then then go like I highly recommend that to get some do you get a small child integrated into it?

Jason Frazell:

Now she she actually, we actually started with the three trilogies we started four or five, six, went to 123 wrapped up a 789. And then we watched the Mandalorian we watched Boba Fett, and then she got scared and Obi Wan Kenobi for whatever reason, so she's not willing to watch that. And I said, why? I think she's scared of Darth Vader.

Unknown:

That's such an interesting thing. Because Obi Wan was such a family show. Right? Like it was? Yeah. You know, you know, we watched it. I did not like it as much as Mandalorian which I think is, you know, currently in my world, the currently gold standard in terms of what they're doing in the TV projects, but I enjoyed it. I had friends who hated it, right? Like who just Yeah, who didn't like it, but it was also like, it's like, it's like watching Doctor Who are you a doctor who fan at all?

Jason Frazell:

I am not. Alright, so

Unknown:

I'm big Doctor Who fan and and my husband is even bigger Doctor Who fans are watching, you know, going all the way back to the 1970s 60s and 70s when it really came out. And so I started watching it when when Christopher when they reached booted it, I think it was Russell Davies rebooted with Chris electric Eccleston. And my friends over here in the UK when I was going through this, like, you know, that's a kid show, right? I'm like, what they're like, doctor who was a kid show and I'm like, but that isn't how they present it to Americans at all. And I don't care. I love the show. Like I love it. Yeah, it over Yeah, considered it. I mean, like, but that's has a kid show and family entertainment kind of different connotations. Right? Yeah. Yeah. closer to family entertainment than necessarily, you know, children's programming. Yeah, right. Absolutely.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, that's it's good. But yeah, it's been a lot of fun assimilating her. And we'll we'll get to Obi Wan at some point. I don't know. Thanks. I think it's this Darth Vader's like scary, or something. All right, David. So speaking of Star Wars, and Doctor Who and Star Trek you and I like that stuff. Other people may say it's a little nerdy. So what's something else you nerd out about?

Unknown:

So I think board gamer I love board games I love I'm super competitive in my in my life. And it also, you know, when I'm playing board games, as well. And the most recent one that I was really really into was this game called kings dilemma, which we play with about five people and so we did it my all my friends who were all that are my little pod up in Peekskill, New York, which is where I live start playing this during the pandemic and I think we it took us six months maybe to finish the game right we get together one day or every other Saturday Yeah, one game right. We'll have your your your group of counselors right, you'll have a backstory, all of these objectives and others really kind of intricate a game, your your, what's happening is you're opening these sealed envelopes, and it's revealing what the dilemma is right? And you as the counselor can make a decision that affects it and then also affects your scoring and your points everything that's going on. And so it's a it's a choose your own adventure kind of game because you open up all these envelopes, but you only open maybe two thirds, maybe half of the total envelopes that are in the box and the rest of them you never get to see it because you didn't decide to go down that pathway. And this year is a really, really cool interesting, very intricately designed game and it's in its it's a one and done, which I don't I'm not always the biggest fan of one and done experiences but like this one was like I would buy the game again and play with other people just to play it again. Right. That's how much I loved it. Yeah,

Jason Frazell:

that sounds cool. I'll give you two things on This around my life one. My wife and I, we're big. We're big Catan players and if you're like, Sure, tant Catan is to me is the gold standard for one night, couple hours get, you know, get two other friends if you're playing as couples or playing with for up to six people the expansion, that game just never gets old. I don't know what it is. It's brilliantly designed.

Unknown:

I got a little I got I designed I downloaded it on my iPad. So I used to play it on the train back and forth in New York City just so I can get better at it when we would when we would play with friends. We actually had to put it on the shelf for a while. The other one that we play is munchkin. Right. Never played. You've never played munchkin? No, munchkin. Munchkin is fantastic. But like, it's, it's, it's it's a it's a, you know, like, like a lot of RPG games. You know, there's some there's elements of d&d that are that are entered as well. But it you're you're basically you're assembling a character, a character, a class, you know, a race and a class and all these different attributes that are or weapons or armor or whatever it is going with it in order to kind of proceed through this 10 Level dungeon. And I'd say it's a single path, right? There's no luxury into it. And you're competing against everyone in the whole thing about Munchkin is the game is really about stabbing your other fellow players in the back. Like that's really what it is, right? So like when we started it, I hadn't played it. And we started I was like, Oh, this game is evil, right? Like this game is really, really evil. And then a friend of mine, actually, my partner that I'm over here with, on this adventure that we're doing now, pulled me aside, he was like, you can never play this game with malice, right? You always have to play in with mischief, but never malice. Because if you just get into stabbing people in the back, no one will ever play with you again. And I was like, we were getting dangerously close to that.

Jason Frazell:

I do I play games that are very similar. They just happen to be on a big screen TV through my PS five or Xbox instead. Yeah, but all the same, you know, all the same. Things are happening in the background around like the rolls and everything. It just happens to be. I'm the big video gamer. So yeah, I'd be thinking, Oh, yeah. Are you playing right now? I'm still playing Eldon ring.

Unknown:

Okay, I haven't. So I haven't, I missed my opportunity this summer to start getting into it. Because then I had to so I'm gone. I'm away from home for the entire month of August. And everyone keeps saying to me, you got to play this game. You got to play the game, you got to play the game, I did this thing where I went completionist on holo night on my switch. So I ended up putting like, well over 100 hours into that game. And I was like, I need something less intense right now than what a game is.

Jason Frazell:

That game is a game is a unbelievable game like and if you know the story of that game, you know, as a little Australian developer, and it's just considered one of like, arguably the greatest Metroidvania game of all time already. It's just that's an incredible game. The story, the world building.

Unknown:

That's what I'm playing right now is I'm playing I'm playing Metroid is my way to ease off from from what I just did another night.

Jason Frazell:

That's great. David. Alright, so let's talk about your comfort zone. Something, what's something that is inside of your comfort zone that you know, is outside of other people's?

Unknown:

Something was in some cover? So that I know is outside? I mean, I think it's my I think it's my, I mean, this relates a lot back to business, but just my risk taking ability, right? I mean, so I've worked in I've worked in live entertainment for 22 years, I think for well over the last decade. I've been a producer in live entertainment. And then I started a software company which is give me Audix a few years ago, and one of the things is mostly Broadway and off Broadway. Right. And one of the things that in this is specific to the little bubble weird little bubble that probably I'll probably is especially within within theatrical, live stage theatrical entertainment, it has to do with risk, right. And lots of people call themselves producers on Broadway. Lots ever. Anyone ever says like, Hey, I'm a producer on Broadway, I can give you a series of questions to ask to determine if they're a producer, like a lead fundraiser whether they're actually just a Yeah, investor and money person. Yeah, yeah, money person, right. It's just weird thing. I think it's just the it's just that ego trip of saying like, I'm a producer, whenever say things that I'm not that I wasn't, you know, in charge of industry, I was a co producer, right. Like, I I helped raise money. And that's all I did. Because the producers want to make decisions, right? Yeah. So so that's the thing. It's like, like I always say, as long as the producer, I'm always like, did you make a decision, like, actually ever come to fruition? Or did you sit in a meeting and people ask your opinion, there's a difference. So, so what, but that's it, but you have to learn how to finance before you can become a lead producer. I mean, it's it's a big part. It's like there's a there's a number of people who kind of go through the ranks and friends of mine who were who were just in awe of in terms of a lot of stuff they've done, where they go, they started as CO producers and working on other people's shows something having their own stuff. And then it proceeded over the years to become lead producers, right. There's like you don't when you're starting a company like you don't start like I think we get a little bit early, a little bit of misaligned with Silicon Valley is like you start a company and you're the CEO is like Well, yeah, no, you're gonna have to work your way up to actually learning how to take charge of an organization. Right? Right. So um, but the difference in in entertainment specifically in entertainment, I think it's true. A lot of Business is your ability to take and manage risk, right? And there are a lot of people who want that burden because it is a burden that you take on to take on and to make it because at the end of it, it's you have to make a decision and live with it. And if it was a bad decision, and you run from that bad decision, you're not a very good leader of your organization.

Jason Frazell:

Right? Yeah. risk taking. So that makes it Yeah.

Unknown:

Yeah. So my ability to take risk has gotten better, right, like, but I've always been that I've always had the ability to take risks. I think when I was younger, it's that it's that nuance of that ability to take risk and make a good decision, a good risk decision, right? Because when you're done, you have no data to really, you're just like, Oh, I gotta make a decision really? Well, I made a lot of very bad decisions in my youth, right. But as you get older, you're learning you learn how to manage that, and you learn how to do it. But I think the hardest part is that the risks just get bigger. And that's the thing that certainly I'm facing in my life right now. It's like, it's like, the ability to take risks has never gotten to the size of the risk, just keep getting larger and larger. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that's been that's been, you know, it's it's, um, the, you know, the CEOs job in any company is to manage cashflow, right, I mean, that's a massive part of what they do for a living, it's not, and it's not even necessarily a CFOs job, as it is like, certainly, they're, they're managing capital A CEO has to ultimately be responsible for that cash, right. And, and that's one of the hardest things I've ever had to deal with. And I certainly still deal with it, you know, on a on a daily basis. But when you're in startup mode, and you're raising money, and you're staring at the ceiling, and 3am, being like, Oh, my God, I have payroll coming up in two weeks, and I have not completely closed these deals that are sitting on the table, right. And my partners in the venture in this in this venture, I'm here in Edinburgh, younger than me, they haven't been through this before, but they're also cognizant of being like, we don't want your job. Not right now. Your job is too hard, we have other jobs to do, we don't want you your job. Like that is that is crazy what you have to deal with. And it's tough.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah. So much to dig into there. And I want to, I want to flip this on you and ask you about something that is outside of your comfort zone, something that you're unwilling to do or just you really don't like doing. And you know, people in your sphere that is, that's their thing, or they're, it's, it's inside of their comfort zone.

Unknown:

So it's so what I'm really good at is long term strategic thinking, right? Like, like, setting up a vision setting with a plan. And then like a lot of people will say that, but like, I actually like, the vision I put for this company that I'm working on right now. But actually, both companies like have borne out point step by step by step by step that I set, like I said, about a year or three years ago, right? I'm really, really good at that. What I am not so good at is that is is that nitty gritty, like day to day detail management of of, of certain aspects of how the company is run. I mean, like getting a letter from the insurance company saying we need you to do this, this or unemployment coming in and saying, Hey, we need this pizza. Like, it makes me want to pull my teeth out of my head. Right? Like that's, and I know lots of people who love that, that detail in terms of in terms of that, that management of the of organizations, and I have people who work for me who absolutely love the accounting, right? They love seeing how the numbers match up on the balance sheet. Oh, God, no, like, good. Right? Like, yes, I have to understand our balance sheet. Yes, I have to understand how it works and where it needs to go. But like, like, making those numbers all fit together in that way. Like Absolutely not. Yeah, I am Rob. Rob, Cassie, who's ever listening to this? who works with me and a couple of my companies like, this is why you're one of my favorite people in the world. Because you're just like, yeah,

Jason Frazell:

yeah, he's well, but David, one thing so I'm, I'm like you, I do not like that stuff, either. I like the vision, the strategy, even something as simple as this podcast is one of the many things I do I love talking to people, I love getting it, I love marketing it some of the more tedious things that I see as tedious to get a podcast out, I'm like, just pay somebody else to do it. So that's like that is the one of the keys to to leadership is don't do the things you don't your you don't like doing even if you could do them because you can pay people and a lot of times for certain things. As you're just starting out, you don't have to pay people a lot. You can have a virtual assistant do it. You can have people do it. It doesn't cost you that much. I think that's great. You, you and I would be a great visionary team. You don't want me doing the books and getting the insurance letters and all those things.

Unknown:

But I would say you still have to understand right jobs, right, like so like, I don't, I don't love social media. Right. Like it's not it's not you know, I'm I'm, you know, almost have an age where it happened. You know, during during my life. It was it was it happened during my lifetime. It wasn't something that I was that I grew up with. Right. Yeah. And so I think there I think you're you certainly see a generational divide of people who are like, you know, a good It's out of necessity. But people who who were born into it effectively, it's like, well, this is just the way the world works, right? And you see that happen a lot of certainly in technology in every generation, right? Like cell phones, When my parents first got a cell phone, they're like, this is the devil. And I'm like, That's the neatest thing I've ever seen. Right? Like, Yeah, cuz like that's. So I'm still like, but like, it is so important from a marketing and immediate strategy that you understand through and through the mechanics of it and where it's placed. It's within your organization, how important it is. I mean, one of the things that was one of the greatest things about about working through Broadway in my generation is that the generation ahead of me did not understand that at all right, and still don't understand how powerful it is as a tool to connect with customers. And they're really bad at it. Right? Yeah. So and so what, you know, I got very, I got very lucky. If I'm allowed to go down on this tangent, please shows that I produced off Broadway. It was a show called pots. And puffs is a parody of the Harry Potter universe. Right. And it was very successful show ran for three years off Broadway. And it's now the number two most produced show in the US right now. Yeah, it was your It was fun experience. It was cool. It's a hard experience. Because it's a it's a parody. Right. Yeah. So there's a lot of rules in in, in legal rules that surround how you can successfully produce a parody for commercial game, right? In the UK, like that, like the rules are different over in the UK. Yeah. And I can't do it, like, really, I could do it over here. But there's no precedent in the courts for it. And it's a really tricky battle to try and make that work. So you know, letting that thing exist in UK. But one of the things about it was, that was revelatory. My experience in live in our team, especially working on Broadway for so long, was, you know, we're thinking about problems that people just come to Broadway, right? Yeah. And they said that, for me is like a Broadway is the brand. Oh, it's not really a brand. There's a lot of different products with no, it's like a grocery store, right? And a lot of products and you know, it's it's, it's really, it's really tricky business in its own right. When we start producing pots, we're like, well, we're producing content for a fandom. And it wasn't even necessarily just the Potter fandom of the people who care about fantasy and comedy, and this kind of different take on looking at retirement and looking at, like, who they are in the world, right. And you also happen to know something about would have to know something about Potter. And, you know, everyone told me it wouldn't work. And everyone told me that, like, you know, I would never get through it legally, you know, like, all that stuff. And what would start happening and that was like, when I started off probably wearing like, 170 theater seat theater and stories above of next to a porn club. Like it was terrible in Midtown, right? And, and, you know, didn't really have much of a budget for marketing advertising. And I was really leery about spending advertising dollars. So what I started doing is going to every wizarding convention to every fantasy convention, everything around the country myself, like, pack up the car, grabbed my husband and say, This is what we're doing for a week. And he'd be like, I hate your job. And, and we go, and I just put out a tape and be like, Hey, I'm doing the show. Right? And started, that's cool. We started connecting to a fandom of people who are like, I'd never go see a Broadway show or an Off Broadway show, I come see this. And that light bulb went off in my head and saying, like, oh, like Marvel, and obviously Disney figured this out years ago, right. But Marvel was was figuring was figuring this out in the early 2000s of saying, We've got this content, we've got this idea we can build a community around this idea. And then yeah, about 20 of the most popular movies of all time. Right? Right. And, and so in so this kind of shift for me that went from producing for a concept of what Broadway is to then producing for a fandom is where I took my career, right? Because then it got so much more interesting for me. In terms of what I was after, and like you say, were my Star Wars teacher today. It's like, I want to produce like everyone, like everyone said, you know, when you're a producer doing every hero produce what you know, produce what you like, and I was like, Yeah, whatever stuff from me and my friends, right? And hopefully, there's enough of us in the world to make.

Jason Frazell:

Right? Yeah, that's, that's awesome. That's a That's a super cool story. I love that. Definitely get a highlight that in the show notes about how you went from Off Broadway Broadway to doing what you're doing now. And we're going to talk more about that after we come back from the break. But before we go to the break, I want to ask you, if I was to give you five minutes, this is your five minute TED Talk. And although we don't have the whole world listening to this podcast, because we did I'd be doing it from my yacht, or the from the moon or the Mars or Mars or I'd be the Elon Musk of podcasting. Give me five minutes and you could speak to us for five minutes on anything. What is it you what is your message to us and what do you want us to do at the end of your speech?

Unknown:

So for me in this I might not take up the full five minutes. It's it I have a really I have a really simple philosophy, right? And in, you know, working in entertainment for as long as I have, you have a lot of ego, right that surrounds you at all time. You have a lot of detractors you have I think that's one of the hardest thing that that I found, when I started working on Broadway is how many people root for your failure, right? Because, yeah, because your success is supposedly their failure. Right. And it was a really, it was, it was tough. And it's one of the reasons why I don't really don't work and Broadway anymore, was this was this community that was built around this idea of other people's successes is your failure. Right. And, of course, I never bought into that, because I think that's just an absolutely absurd way to work in the world. But it created this just sense of envy and jealousy. Right, that just that permeates, you know, all throughout it. And, and but then, you know, you start having success, you start doing something right, or you or you have an idea, and you have something about passion that you're pursuing. And it's like it just it just, like spawns detractors, right. That was also really hard to deal with, which is like, I'm not harming anyone, I'm young and making mistakes, and like, in learning and doing all these things that I'm trying to do, but we're gonna represent our team, and we're not like, going to war, like I'm trying to entertain. We, like why do we care so much about what everybody else is doing? And so like, what I, what I really started to do you and this certainly happened when I founded my first entertainment company on my own. I had another partner but there was a company called Tilton windmills that I had, was really was It was rough founding, there was a previous company that was right before it with a third partner who signed a contract and and walked away, never paying the bills. And we're like, oh, like, it wasn't one of those terrible startup situations. You hear about them all the time. And at the time, it was like, this is the end of the world. Well, it wasn't in the world, right? Yeah. And so what, what I just did, I was just like, You know what, none of this matters, put your head down, do the work, right. Let the work, let the work speak for itself, that the work be the thing that answers the detractors, that answers to all these other things, stop focusing so much on what other people are saying or what other people think about you or any other thing and let the work speak for it. Because if you believe in the work, and you believe in the thing you're doing, whether it is successful or not, like you have to learn how to manage your definition of success. Right? Yeah. And it's tough in an industry, that is not a real industry, from a business standpoint, like it is a fantasy land of Crazy, right? Because the challenge on the challenge on on like the entrepreneur is that is that the margins are terrible. And the financing is coming in from people who are using as part of their their high net worth individuals, we're using it as part of their high yield investments, right? I mean, I'm sorry, their high risk investment strategy, but that section of their portfolio, that's what it's there. So then you are create and this has been happening for decades, now you're creating an environment where we're losses, okay, because like, well, we didn't fucking care about to begin with sorry, partly apologize if I acknowledged wearing a bug.

Jason Frazell:

This is a this is explicit on the podcast, we're good.

Unknown:

So where, and that, and that, in itself breeds a weird conundrum, of, of, of lack of caring sometimes about loss, lack of caring sometimes about the weight of business, and we're like, you know, it's, it's, it's, there's a strange thing, right? That I could go on for another five minutes, but I want, right, so what both so I really just sat down and said, doesn't matter. And it doesn't matter how long it takes. It doesn't matter whether whether I'm successful. And as long as I'm doing the work. As long as I'm happy. As long as I'm delivering. As long as I am doing the things, the goals that I set up for myself, that is what my measure of success is. And as long as I am working as hard as I can on the product that I'm doing, right and not sweating the small stuff of what else is coming at me, then that's, that's what matters, right? And so, so it's this concept of, you're only in a race with yourself, right? You only are like the only person that you are competing with is yourself and stop worrying so much about what's happening your pupil because I have peers, who you know, I go back in the other industry who are multiple Tony Award winners. Now they've had really hugely successful businesses, right. And that's amazing for them. But it doesn't mean that I am any less successful. What I've done, what I have done in my career is something that they never could have ever done. Right? That's right. Well, yeah, in terms of the things that I do, I build in the strategy in the passion. And, and so it's, it's, I'm happy, like and I want everyone around me be successful. But at the same time, it doesn't like it's really just me against me, right? And making sure that I'm holding myself accountable. Like it's a weird thing in business because of the you know, what they teach you is like, you know, find your competitor, right? Find your competitor finding competitor and when you do that from a product standpoint, but as a person that is the CEO leaving the company and like, competing against them? Right? Yeah, that isn't that isn't that isn't really what I'm what we're so there's no there's no reward. There's no prize, right? There's no finish line, right? It's just, it's like, what do I want to get out of it? Right? So

Jason Frazell:

yeah, I love that. David I what I hear there is it's an abundance mindset that there's actually enough for everybody. There's enough customers to make gaming addicts as wildly successful for shows good. There's enough people that are going to come see it. And you don't have to think

Unknown:

come see it. I mean, that's so true, right? It's so true. Yeah. To good product and the product is good. So like, stop. Stop trying to cut everybody else down to get to get your thing, right.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. David. We're gonna take a brief commercial break, break. We'll be right back after this. Alright, David, we are back. What else do you want us to know about you?

Unknown:

Oh, gosh, um, I throw animal lover I have I had two cats. Both of which have recently passed within the last year who are named Buffy and Spike. cat is named faith. And we just got a dog three months ago, a puppy three months ago named Willow. So we'll we're excited to go all in in our lives on naming our animals after Buffy the Vampire Slayer just have just stuck to it for almost two decades.

Jason Frazell:

What? What kind of puppy did you get?

Unknown:

So we had to rescue and when we adopted her, they said she's a lab mix. Which if anyone ever says that to you, when you're dumping a rescue, that is a lie. Because that's how they get dogs who does it? And we recognized like we like we recognize the game when we got it. We're like, alright, lab mix. That's fine like this. What you're showing us right now is like sure there's lab in it, but like, yeah, see what else is going on? Right? Because if they don't, they will never say Pitbull, right. They'll never say unless it's obviously a pitbull. Right, right. Any chance? They haven't yet? No, like, pitbulls are amazing dogs. Like some of the best. Oh, it's out there. But there's just this weird thing about them. Right? So anyway, we did that. We did that DNA test, like shout out to embark which was a lovely company to do our DNA test. And she came back as half Pitbull Terrier. Right. And then 15% Staffordshire Terrier. And then 15% labs are like, Alright, there's the lab. And then 15% Great Dane. So that was the thing that there was for oh, and then it was okay. 5% German Shepherd. Right. And we're like, how big is this dog going to get there like this dog? And that was like, this is a 90 pound dog. Right? Lucky. So my husband and I, my husband wanted a small dog. We compromised at a medium dog and we got a big dog.

Jason Frazell:

You got a big are her paws already. Just huge, huge, huge balls. Oh, yeah. But what

Unknown:

am I one of my one of my partners. When she first met her. She pulled me aside. She was like, that dog has great day. And I'm like, No, she's like that dog. I looked at her paws that dog is great. And and she was she was right. She was totally right about it.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah. Well, David, as long as you don't have to get a new vehicle to support your dog. That's, that's, you know, I see. I see great day notice which Great Danes are great dog them like, we would actually need another car. That's like having another that's having a more than a bigger human in your life. Some of these huge dog breeds,

Unknown:

especially somebody that that we don't think she's gonna be like 30 pounds. I think we think she'll cap out at 90 Like we hope so like so that's good. The nice thing about having a mix like that is that you really really intelligent dog like, sure is taking the training so quickly. And so that that is helpful. I mean, she like any puppy is destroying our house like one piece of furniture and shoe at a time right now. But you know, she's she's she's really smart. So we're, we're happy with that.

Jason Frazell:

Congratulations. We're big dog people as well. We have we went the other way. We have a purebred English cream golden retriever, because we are also but we're crazy. We got her four months after we had our son. Because we needed enough. It wasn't hard enough with already a four year old daughter at the time. And then an infant to get a dog with the wreath and people go oh, you should have gotten a rescue. I said the reason we got her name is sunshine rain named by our four year old at the time, just There we go. If you if you ever see a picture of our dog fits her perfectly. She's pure gold and pure sunshine, the because we need something very predictable. So you've actually empowered my decision right now said we need a dog at a specific size with a specific temperament. And she's turned out exactly how we expected. We love rescues too. But we're just like, we're like we got a baby in the house. We cannot have any any sort of danger or something too big. And

Unknown:

that's no good, especially especially with little kids like I mean, Jacob and I can handle ourselves with dogs. But if you're introducing infants into the situation, it's just a four year old. You just you don't want to take that kind of risk. And because of the worst part is is like well, you don't want to do is have to return the dog and destroy your four year olds. Oh, absolutely. Just yeah. Yeah. David, I mean, it happens yeah. But it's That that was that was a smart. That was a smart decision, I would say.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, yeah, she's she's awesome. David, now's the time in the show where you I give you the hosting Mike, you get to ask me something we don't we've just met about 45 minutes ago. So based on what we've talked about, or just what you're curious about, what would you like to ask me that I can answer for you and for the audience?

Unknown:

So I got I got two questions. I'm sure you've answered this before. I would say like, what, if anything, did anything change about you during the pandemic? And how did your career change or independent? So I'm really curious about this two year journey that we all collectively had to go on? And what what we did and what happened with it? Mm hmm.

Jason Frazell:

Great question. Nobody has asked me to in this specific way. So thank you. See, how has it changed? Well, it's it's an interesting question for me, because I was eight months into my entrepreneurial journey when the pandemic hit. And my profession is I do executive leadership coaching, mostly for tech for tech company, the tech founders, senior leaders attack, I do a lot of facilitation work. And I do training work. So I was already mostly virtual. So that part didn't really change for me. However, what did change is I was a we work, I was a we work fanatic. So I would go into the we work in our neighborhood, I had a we were global axis memberships. So I would go to the WeWorks. In Midtown, I go to the we were, we works everywhere. So I had this life where I would get up in the morning, I dropped my daughter off for preschool. And then I might be in Midtown, I might be at Times Square, I might be in Brooklyn Heights where we live anywhere in between at a we work. And then it went from that to oh, I'm sitting in my house in the Catskills with my wife, with my wife also working in a house that isn't really set up for two of us to work. And it is now we have both created office spaces there. So for me, it wasn't so much what I was doing. It was more like the conditions of what it was inside of. And I was telling you this before the break, or on the on the break, internet, you know, like internet works. And Brooklyn is really good internet where we moved to wasn't that great at the time. So that was a huge challenge. Like how to my wife and I both work with was low internet.

Unknown:

Did you did you find the environment of being in the startup environment, which is how we work? You know, of course, bills itself is like everybody who's there, you know, in the in a startup emerge? Did you find that that fueled you

Jason Frazell:

know, yeah, I'm a complete X. I'm a, I'm 100% extroverted on the Myers Briggs. Right?

Unknown:

So you're that guy that's going around and talking to everybody. We weren't being like, Tell me your story. Like I keep running. Oh, like, oh,

Jason Frazell:

no, no. So that's interesting. I'm a huge extrovert, but I don't like to bother people. So it's an interesting man. I'm the guy who's gonna, I'm gonna sit in the common space. I'm going to put on my headphones, if I'm not doing anything, but I'm going to soak in the energy and just like what's going on around me, I'm a big, like, I feel the energy. So I'm not I'm not the dude who's gonna like come up and be like, Hey, so what are you working on? Not that guy. I mean, if we say Hi, we're having a coffee, I'd say hey, like, um, Jason, what, you know, like a nice conversation. But that's an interesting thing. But so my business didn't change that much. Except for the fact that a lot of the ways I generated clients is I'm a big networker. Yeah. So I was doing I was at a networking group we met in Midtown. Every Thursday, I would meet people do evening events, and I just, I'm just a very social person. That was the big thing for me that changed tremendously for my business, is how do I meet people? How do I talk to people? How do we get in front of people, not just for business, but just for relationship building overall? How do I find good podcast guests? When we're all locked up? So that was that was the big change.

Unknown:

I did Lunch Club for a while, you know, Lunch Club.

Jason Frazell:

I'm lunch got done. Done almost 100. lunch clubs? Yeah. Yeah. So

Unknown:

I did I did a lot of lunch club during during the pandemic, right? Yeah, for that exact same reason being like, I miss going out to a bar and just striking up a random conversation with someone and be like, What are you doing or seeing colleagues in my industry or former industry and saying, Hey, what's everybody working on what you guys are doing? Right? And so yeah, so lunch, lunch club was lunch cup was really was, was fast. It was fascinating to learn from it. I have I have because I'm running two companies right now, I have lost the ability to give away an hour in my week. Right now, I'm

Jason Frazell:

kind of the same way.

Unknown:

Which I used to imagine that they're seeing there's a lot of grip, like zoom, there's a lot of growth, and then not.

Jason Frazell:

You know, I was just thinking about that with launch club. I used to be pretty religious about doing two a week. Yeah. And I can't tell you the last time I've been able to make a regularly scheduled Lunch Club, they've also changed it where you can't tell them what times are available. You have to say, I'd like to meet at this, which doesn't really work for me. Because I'm always gonna put a podcast. I'm like, I used to do some meetings Mondays at nine. I'm always going to meet with you and do a podcast with you before I'm going to do a lunch club because we're going to have a real awesome conversation. It's, you know, part of what I'm up to. And I'm still a member. I actually think I paused it last week, but I need to I need to get back in there and because I do love it. I just I love the Give like who's this person on the other line? And we're going to talk about, I've talked about lunch club on this podcast a few times, I would always go in. And because I'm a coach, I would go in people like, what do you do? I'm like, is that really what you want to talk about today? And a lot of times people will go, nah, I'd rather just tell you what's up, like how, you know, like, what? What do you want to talk about today? And I will say this a plug for lunch club of the 100 or so I've done I would say 95 of the conversations have been delightful. Like really people, good people, just like what are they up to? Sometimes you talk business, sometimes you don't, sometimes you talk family, travel, really whatever people want to talk, but I've had a few I'm just like, this is you don't know me, and you're pitching me on something you don't even know if this is interesting to me, and you just go right into the pitch doesn't

Unknown:

work. So I have, I have to say, I gotta say I used Lunch Club for evil in the context of the conversation, right, which was when I was mean, so I get the concept of what a meiotic does my software company, which is just very briefly, it's real time audience engagement for the live space, right, your live entertainment, museums, cool sporting events, whatever it is, right, we're able to establish a two way conversation with your fans, you know, collectively or even individually, to allow them to have a gamified experience. That's a short trip pitch, right. And one of the when I this started, you know, that software was developed back in like 1718. And it was always a side project. And then in January 20, I took it on full time, and and was starting to raise money started to build and sort of build the company. And then of course, pandemic, and everything just went, you know, completely. So, so one of the things that I did is I moved this, I moved everything I was doing up to zoom and we use Zoom as an entertainment platform. And then I spent, you know, 18 months use casing out the software and figuring out how it worked. Right. And part of that process was actually figuring out what I had to say I would say, in general 20 What I had done is 100% different than what I have right now. Sure. I mean it and you hear that a lot. You mean like in you know, founders journeys, like Slack being one of the best examples of you know, Slack isn't even the company that they founded. It was like a gaming chat. Great story. Yeah. Great. Great, right. It's a great, great story. I love that story. Right? So So what and like, it's my company is similar to what we founded, but But it's wholly totally different right now. So anyway, so what I would use Lunch Club for, is working out pitch messaging me like they're like I'm working on, right. And I would just put and see if I was and 90% of the time to these poor people on lunch, but who I'd be matched with. Like, it'd be like, Okay, I am speaking a foreign language to you, okay, because I don't have the right message. And every week, right, and see him working. And it really did help because the thing that clinched it for me to get my seed investments as a seed seed funding is from someone that I know who I've worked with before, but I've been talking to for months prior to, to them making the commitment is I had been i Then, like working out the language and finally gonna get into a get another meeting with this investor. And I say, Oh, look, we started talking to me, I was like, Alright, so where are you on? You know, they give me audits and what's going on? I said, Well, look, I figured it out. It's a two way communication device between audience and content. Right. And I had used that line right, several times before, right in, and I noticed that it started sparking, and they were like, Wait, tell me more about that. And so when I sent it to the investor, he said, In all the months we were talking, you finally explained what you're doing this makes sense. Let's do a deal. Right? Oh, I was like, yeah, so guys, great. But like, you know, at the same time, it was just like, I had my own purposes on lunch, just to figure out how to talk about this. Because that was I think, I think the perfect standpoint. Like that's what, you know, I'm a non technical founder, I'm coming from entertainment, right? Like, I'm right, go through, I'm not, you know, in San Francisco, I'm not in that environment. Right. I wasn't in WeWork. I wasn't around other startup founders, except in the theatrical which zone bubble? And so I yeah, it allowed me to talk to people in other industries, to really sit down and learn how to talk about this software company that I have. Right, David?

Jason Frazell:

So good. We do have something in common here. I would use it for I would use it for the reverse. So I would, as you know, as a coach, it's really all about LIS mostly about listening. And so I would really work on my listening skills. And I would be listening for what's not being said, and what is the what is the view that's personalized to the world. And then in my mind, not everybody, it depends on who the person is. I think if you and I met, I've just been like, really interested in what you're doing. Because I'm a theatre person. And I'm a tech person, I would have been like, I want to hear about this thing. Just purely because it sounds cool. But for some people where they're they're either pitching me something or they're talking about something that is just it's not in my world, and it's like I'm interested in, I was always thinking to myself, hey, if they came to me and I was their coach, and they want a coaching on what they're bringing, how would I How would I show up for them? But like, you know, like role playing in my mind, but you know, you're kind of inspiring me to get back into lunch club. I think I haven't scheduled for this Friday. So we'll see, like Fornia reschedule,

Unknown:

especially if you're in the Catskills and you're not getting into the city as probably as much as you used to. I used to live in so it's, it's there is something joyous about just meeting someone randomly. Right? You know, like there's something joyous about it. So yeah, I mean, like, it's like, I like I unfortunately like I'm so I'm in Edinburgh. Like I said, we've said I'm gonna Ember right now. I am meeting lots of people right now. My target market to cool.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah. And it sounds like it's cool. Yeah. Last Last thing I'll say about lunch club, then I've got a few more questions for you is a podcast with a podcast called talking to cool people. So Lunch Club is definitely my spot. It's a spot that I love. I, you know, the reason I do this show is because I really genuinely like connecting with people and hearing what they're up to. And I think people are so fascinating. And man, David even spire me, like, Oh, I've got like three lunch clubs that need to reschedule, they've hit me up on the messaging app, and be like, Oh, I do want to meet with this person. I really want to meet with this person. And we just haven't made it made it work. So you have personally inspire me to go and do that here. And I have a few minutes today, and then I'll probably end up rescheduling. Exactly. So David, what's the thing that you're most proud of?

Unknown:

most proud of, um, oh, I mean, it this is going to be so this could come across so corny, but my marriage of Jacob and I have been together for almost 18 years, this September, when we were in our early 20s, we both worked in entertainment. He's as a performer for many, many years, and has now transitioned into being a personal trainer. And he seems he met me when I was an assistant, right to go on to to become a lead producer on Broadway and producing his show, and you know, the things that I'm doing now, and, you know, you, you know, who you are in your early 20s, versus who you are in your early 40s are very different people, right, and your marriage, marriage is a testament to how hard we have worked on, especially with the amount that we both travel because we just many, many months apart every year, right? Yeah, over the course of it. And, and, and learning, learning that effective communication between the two of us, helps me in my life, right, like, just helps me in my life, all the places and learning that that, you know, learning how to communicate like that. And so, ya know, it's it is something it is something I'm very, very proud of like we are to be able is hard it is we're away for a month, we're gone from each other for a month, this time, while I'm over here, you know, it, it just knowing that, you know, I get back and we jump right back into it. And then I'm on for six weeks, and I'm gone for another month. And you know, and that and then we can withstand this because I definitely have seen other friends and other relationships just just fall apart under similar scenarios. And it's it's so I'm very, very proud of it that we that we that we've been together for certainly as long as we have, obviously we're married and have a house together and pets and all that, but

Jason Frazell:

they're called for babies or babies. Exactly. Right now, congrats. I, I you know, I asked this question of everybody. And for people that are parents and or spouses, that's generally the answer. I don't think it's corny at all. I actually, you know, when people don't say that, and I know they're married, or they have children, I actually wonder what they're doing it all for you. Yeah, that's actually what runs through my mind is. So you're most proud. I don't know that I've ever had any parent on this show ever not say their children like that is the number one answer. If I was going to do a data analysis of the answers on these, if people have children every single time is what's the thing you're most proud of my children, if they're grown, whatever. So validating you that that I do not believe that's corny. I think that is that is and it's it's also as the truthful answer, which is what makes it valuable.

Unknown:

So what's what's fun, right? So it's fun as gay man, right, is that you get to be insanely selfish, right? Like, you've just got to be selfish.

Jason Frazell:

Right now you're making me jealous with a six year old and a one year old.

Unknown:

So because we made we didn't we made the decision not to have kids. We're not neither of us. You know, if you're if you don't want to have children, you shouldn't have children. And neither. We're good. We're working on this. Right? So yeah. And in 16 years of cats, right? Pretty easy. These cats are just as selfish as we are. Right? So like, easy relationship in that house. Right? So but we always wanted a dog and the only thing that was holding us back from getting a dog after we moved to the suburbs, like we were living in Manhattan in an apartment, like tiny, tiny, tiny apartment and we couldn't get a dog there. And we move to the suburbs seven years ago, like oh, now it's time for a dog and like, Well, yeah, but we have these old cats, right? Like, you know, our cats are not going to be about a puppy. And then we say after a cat turns 10 Like you've missed that window, right? Like the cat like it's you're just gonna create serious recovery waiting so then we have these two old cats who just got older and eventually just got sicker and there's like, Oh, can you get a dog your dog and so eventually the one cat died and then and then my boy spike passed away in March and and and we're like, all right, you know, now it's time now of course, I was great. Like this cat was my best friend and like, I love that kind. Of course. All right, so I was screaming for a long time. And finally Jake was like we're getting a dog you're going away to summer. You have a crazy year. It's like it's gonna happen and I'm like, I'm not ready. I'm gonna have a cat and he just he shows we show up. He was like, let's just go look which was a lie, right which was a llama. DAVID Right for Donald the paperwork. We gotten pre approved, we go down to this animal rescue called paws crossed in, in Elmsford, New York, which is in yester Shan, we show up and we get up there and I'm like, okay, and I asked him like, hey, our application sounds like so what's the next step? What's the next hurdle? We have to jump there? Like, if you see a dog, you take a dog, and I was like, what? And chickens? Like, fooled you. So we were getting we get Willow. And we're like, well, this dog is coming home for us, like, you know, prior out of our cold dead hands. Like this is our dog. It's and we, and then and then we get home. We're like, oh, shit, we have a puppy. Now we have a puppy, a puppy that has turned out what we described earlier. Just a lot of puppy. Yeah, was and I know, you know this as a as a parent, and I'm not making any comparison. But the thing about about taking in, that that needy needy creature is for the first time in 18 years, it forced us to start thinking outside of ourselves for a minute, right? And I don't use litter boxes. Yes, they do. Not they they are wholly dependent on you. Right? Yes. They are like the cats who really don't care. Yeah. And so and so that has been a great transition for both of us right now. And it was way harder on Jacob than it was on me. Because he has more of the responsibility for for for raising the dog than I do. Right. Sure. But it has been a really interesting moment for us in saying, Gosh, like, we now have to not just think about ourselves anymore, right? Yeah, that's been great. And who would have thunk, right? That that would have been a good thing for us, right? We were right on ourselves. But this has been a really lovely learning experience for us. I'm glad we certainly had it at this point in our lives, just saying, Oh, you have to start thinking outside of yourself now. You know,

Jason Frazell:

yeah. So many things in that story. One of them is nobody goes to an animal shelter to look. You know what to expect you walk in and there's so many adorable kittens and puppies. No, you're like, you know what, we're definitely not getting one. We're just going to go look at these really cute little creatures that are needy and knowing, depending on the type of shelter that if they don't go home, it could be a big problem for them. Like i That's why like you just didn't working

Unknown:

really well. We love we love. That's one of the reasons why we were we went there.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Dave, as we start to wrap up here, I call this my therapy question. Sit down, grab a box of Kleenex, maybe not, we'll see. What's something you're afraid might actually be true about you.

Unknown:

Oh, oh, that's an interesting question. I'm something I'm free. That might actually be true. But me. i And yeah, you know, it's that, again, I'm sure you've heard this answer a lot like that impostor syndrome man runs deep and any founder it runs really deep. And it's true in my both of my startups right now. And actually, just that just that constant fear of hovering on the edge. And I think the thing is, like, God, I've I have I have I over like over risk this right. I think that's a that's a really scary thing to confront and saying, oh, gosh, have I have I have I taken us too far somewhere? Right. Yeah, that's terrifying. Right? That's terrifying. And so it was my judgment that, you know, yeah.

Jason Frazell:

So then what do you do to compensate for that?

Unknown:

put my head down. Do the work. Just grind it out. Yeah. De risking, right d rescue? Yeah. What did you rescue the situation and be like, you know, build a better product. Right? Keep making it better keep making a better

Jason Frazell:

thing. That's a that's a cool lesson. That resonates for me, as somebody run my own business. I'm around a lot of people who run their own businesses. Like you said, I don't know anybody, anybody that either coach that I'm friends with, it doesn't matter. Most people who run their own businesses have that feeling. And most of us, myself included compensate, by heads down work, controlling what we can control. screaming into a pillow sometimes speaking for a friend, of course, I'm sure you've never had any any moments where you're like, but just yesterday. You're like, well, it's afternoon here. I've only done that twice. Exactly. That's awesome. David, how do you see the world?

Unknown:

Ah, tough question these days, right? I mean, yeah, you know, I try and take it's, I mean, that's, that's a really tough one. I mean, like, they're the very remember when when Trump got elected and everybody was really really down. I just I kept I kept saying to people, is like, look, look first off, you know, I'm a firm believer is like, look, America is not isn't America is not one country. It's several countries several different countries cobbled together I mean, it's literally was founded that argue but it's not one country and that's, that's a really tough thing to to recognize. Understand. It's still seems to work for the moment. But we're going to talk about elected and certainly, you know, there are people who are really down about it in you know, and on the left of saying, Gosh, like one of the functions of this of this country and of this democracy is that it swings, right. And if you go back in its history, it has a tendency to swing really far white right, every once in a while, and yeah, and, you know, going all the way, you know, certainly look at there was a moment in this country where alcoholism that had become such a problem in society that they banned alcohol, any of us can contemplate, I mean, it will, but but we can contemplate that right now. Right. And I think that's the thing that like with the with the Supreme Court, allowing abortion to be banned state by state, right. Yeah. Which is what happened was prohibition wasn't a constitutional amendment. Right. Right. So you know, like, you're not you're probably not seeing a constitutional amendment about abortion either way right now. But that you that you see these wild swings, and so it's that it's that, you know, the winners of the world is like we are we are on a constant pendulum. Right. There is there is deep seated conservative religious thought that swung that swings us, right, you know, because they believe so passionately about and there's deep seated, liberal and progressive belief that swings back to the left, and the country doesn't have a tendency just to stay in the middle. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jason Frazell:

Well, as we wrap up, I'd love to hear I'd love to hear what you're up to it in your company right now, while you're doing what you're doing in Scotland, love to hear. And please, as we talk about this, how can people connect with this, check out what you're doing all that good stuff.

Unknown:

So give me Audix. There's two companies when I was give me onyx, and then it's 20 sided. taproom, which I'll talk for a minute about right. But give me honest, he is a it's a it's a b2c company. I'm sorry. That's a it's a b2b company, right? b2b, b2b company, right? That gave me onyx and providing a software solution in the in the live space to allow for connectivity and different types of experiences to be able to be built using the software. Right. And so we're out there doing is that we're currently right now. And in a massive overhaul of the technology, right? We are, we are preparing ourselves to be SAS ready by the beginning of October, which is not where it is right now. Right? The software they've been operating for last few years has effectively been our MVP, and I've been able to build products on top of it, but it's not really ready for the next moment. So in the midst of doing this massive overhaul, and we're starting prepare, we're working through our go to market strategy, we're working through all these things that we need to do to then start introducing the next what we call 2.0 Give me how to point in the world and really start saying, Hey, we have this really powerful piece of software that that can do a lot of things that nobody else can do, that you've never contemplated being able to do right now in in the world. Right. And so we're in that, you know, seed funded product development stage, and we're about just to go out the door and see what happens, right. That said, but we did all this I have also built my first entertain my first Enterprise Client, which is this live auction experience called 20s that are tavern. I built it for several reasons. One is because it works. It's great, right? It's the best thing I've ever done in my life outside of myself. But also the challenge when you are when you're doing what I'm doing in entertainment especially when it comes to technology or in the live space is no one believes your tech works even when you tell him it does and show him videos that it doesn't no one believes you that it works right and so it became a mission to build a product that on its own right that can stand on its own two feet right outside of the meiotic partner you know I'm a partner in it but I try to get me out to prove to people that this works right the the hard part about it and I'd say this is the hard part is the show is an honest to god hit like it is a hit hit experience. And so what when he started Tavern is is that it's a live action Dungeons and Dragons style gaming experience, right? Where your audience a live entertainment audience, right is using my software to participate in this game that's happening on stage right? The idea is that everybody's got stakes everybody's got everybody's building the story together. And so you were building a product for this marketplace and I would say it's the entirety of the Comic Con marketplace is people who love gaming in their lives are people who love modal is type of experience right? Who come in into your show and they have they have states and they have agency in these spirits are happening and then it's never the same show twice because of that. So the variables from the choices that the audiences were making, it goes beyond Poland they have there's a lot of minigames and things they have to do the dice getting rolled on stage live you dice cams up so you can see how the dice are getting rolled to how the story is going through its various paths right have created this really unique, a very exciting thing that is custom built for this audience. And so we everywhere we go, we sell out the show at this point. So so we have we we have been selling out regularly here in in Edinburgh at the Fringe Festival. It's getting four star reviews. We're getting great quotes right now. And we're starting to build This company, and this project comes out on a Wednesday, right? Comes out on a Wednesday. So theoretically tomorrow and I might be a little ahead of it, but I might as well, I don't even, like we announced that we're going to Chicago this fall. And so we're going to take a week off. And then we start building our Chicago we're gonna be in Chicago for three months, this phone, I won't say where but you know, we'll be right. And so that will be the first commercial leg of the we're out of development, we're into the commercial leg of the journey for the for the show. And and what happened over here in Edinburgh was that, we discovered that there was a global audience for the show, right that this idea of gamification of experience, this idea of taking the concept of RPG gaming into the live entertainment speed space, and given the audience stakes in a way to play the show, works like through and through, and it doesn't throw it through. So Toys R Tavern is on it's march forward now with with game EOCs being the software solution for the engagement tech, so no.

Jason Frazell:

Well, David, I will say this, you have a you are talking to a future customer, for sure that is right, right in my wheelhouse. As like I love I come from the tech tech world as well. And I was mentioned mentioning this to you. I really need to get you on my other podcast, talking to tech people where we're just going to talk about the actual business, the tech, it's a more business focused podcast, and the thought behind it. I'd love to have you on there. But I can tell you when this comes somewhere near me, near me from traveling to Chicago from New York, I will definitely do that. This is like my jam. Like I like interactivity. And I like tech. I like I like that combination to have the Yeah, it's happening live on stage because I'm a big theater person as well. Like I like to go to the theater. So that sounds really cool. So congratulations. What a cool. What a cool concept.

Unknown:

It's, it's, this is this has been one of the hardest but the most fun things I've ever done. By far, far and away. It's the best. Like I said earlier, it's the best thing I've ever done. Yeah, I have two partners in this venture who are amazing. They're the creators of it. And then we all run the company together. So I'm building a startup with two people that I absolutely love. And like we have gone through the fire here in Edinburgh do the show and like it just it just keeps selling out. So we're really thrilled.

Jason Frazell:

You're doing what every every founder dreams of finding product market fit. Yeah, there's, there's a market, there's a market for what you've done. And I'm sure you know, a lot of founders to like, Man, I thought this is a good idea. And then we get it out there and people just Yeah.

Unknown:

Well, the hardest thing land. And we talked about the business podcast, the hard thing is when investors when investors say to you, well, you're your own client. So I don't believe this, right? And I'm like, no one else is gonna build like, What are you talking about my own course and then my own client? selling out like, where are you? It's just this weird Silicon Valley craziness that needs over? Oh, well, I can tell you could never possibly believe in what you're doing. Okay. All right, fine, whatever. I'll let the numbers speak for it. So

Jason Frazell:

yeah, that's awesome, David. Well, as we wrap up here, love to get some short and sweet words of wisdom that would fit on fit on an Instagram post. So what do you have for all of us here listening and with us? Short and sweet words of wisdom?

Unknown:

Whenever someone says to you, oh, you must be passionate about this in a condescending voice. Ignore it's

Jason Frazell:

such good. That's, um, that's the tech. That's the startup version of the Southern Oh, bless your heart.

Unknown:

Yeah. Oh, you're so passionate about this. Yeah, I work 80 hours a week. Of course.

Jason Frazell:

I'm passionate. I know. That's so good. David. I'm so glad we got a chance to do this. You're, we're gonna get you set up on my other podcast as well. We'll talk more about game biotics. I want to say congratulations to you and Jacob on the new furbaby Thank you. Oh, Puppy lover. And also Jacob. I hope you listen to this. God bless you being home alone with a puppy.

Unknown:

Yeah, it's doing them all.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, it's a sense. Yeah. You've obviously got to keep her here, David, as somebody who's willing to do that while you're out doing the thing. So good to have you on and just continued success to you and we'll we'll get you. We'll talk to you on the other podcast soon. All right, thanks so much. Thanks, David. Yep, bye