Talking to Cool People w/ Jason Frazell

Brittany Hodak — Author & Speaker

August 11, 2022 Season 3 Episode 30
Talking to Cool People w/ Jason Frazell
Brittany Hodak — Author & Speaker
Show Notes Transcript

Brittany talks about why the customer experience across every single person in the organization, Jason labels Brittany the "Larry David of customer experience" and they decide that Brittany's four year old son is going to be the next great guest.

"Be nice and listen." Kato Hodak (Brittany's son)

Brittany Hodak is an award-winning entrepreneur, author, and customer experience speaker who has delivered keynotes across the globe to organizations including American Express and the United Nations. She has worked with some of the world’s biggest brands and entertainers, including Walmart, Disney, Katy Perry, and Dolly Parton.

She founded and scaled an entertainment startup to eight figures before exiting and is the former Chief Experience Officer of Experience.com. Her debut book, Creating Superfans, will be in stores on January 10, 2023.

BrittanyHodak.com
https://www.instagram.com/brittanyhodak/?hl=en
https://www.facebook.com/brittanyhodak
https://www.linkedin.com/in/brittanyhodak/

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Jason Frazell:

My guest on the show today is Brittany honeck. Brittany, she's a speaker. She's an author. She's a mom and her kid almost just interrupted our episode as we kicked off, because every parent who works at home knows that this is the thing when you're doing podcasts is that's when the kids want. And she's literally obsessed with the customer experience. And we call that a cliffhanger. Because I'm not going to explain that any further. You got to listen to the episode. You're gonna love Britney. I know. I've got to know Britney over the last few months. She's amazing. We're gonna have a really fun conversation. Brittany, welcome. Thanks, Susan. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah, the Britney, you're coming in from Nashville, Tennessee today are the suburbs of Nashville, Tennessee. That's correct. Music City. Yeah. And it's, I'm guessing it's super hot there. Oh, yeah.

Brittany Hodak:

It was like 110. All week last week. It's just disgusting. I was just telling you, I was out for a little walk before we recorded up here in New York. And it is steaming hot here too. And I'm just like, I don't I'm no less. I'm at the beach or the pool. I don't want this sort of heat. I don't like it at all. Um, let's see. So let's just kick off. And let's get into it today. So Brittany, what's something that you nerd out about slash you're obsessed with? Well, I think you said it in the cliffhanger. And that is the customer experience, I am so focused on helping every person who has a job, whether they're the CEO, or somebody who has their very first job, you know, as a high schooler, so obsessed with helping them understand why the customer is so critical to what they're doing, and to really try to make every decision with their customers at the center of that decision making process.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, we're, we're going to talk a lot more about this. Again, spoil another cliffhanger. You have an actual book coming out about this, this coming out early January. Love and we'll get into more of your background are on this. Like, what I'm curious. And I don't know the answer to this either. What is it that got you hooked on this from the beginning? Like what would what's what's the thing? And when did you find this passion? And what is it about it that that hooks you because I think a lot of people say this, like your company, every company like Oh, customers are first but you're somebody that like, actually leans into that and lives it and demonstrates it. So what how is this a thing for you? Like, will you actually live into it?

Brittany Hodak:

You know, I think it all comes from my dad, or a lot of it comes from my dad, his name is Jody. And when I was a kid, he when I was really young, he managed a fast food restaurant, a long john Silver's. And I loved going and like sitting in the booth and watching him work and watching the way he interacted with his team members and employees and customers alike. There were so many customers who will come in and just like would want my dad to come up from the back to say hi. And he like knew all of their orders and knew all of their names and was always going way, way above and beyond. And that was just, you know, the way he treated everyone. And he was always so bullish to me and my brother of teaching us like people first always, like you've got to treat people, well, you've got to treat them so well. And when I was in high school, he was the customer service manager at a car dealership. And that was another opportunity for me to just see like all the cool things that he did for customers, both like on a big scale, like some of the systems he implemented, and some of the programs but also individually. And I think, you know, I obviously like I absorbed all of that like growing up in a household. But I didn't know like what customer experience really was until much later. And I think for a while, even though most of what my dad did was customer service, like it was customer experience. And so I think that's what kind of like made me fall in love with it.

Jason Frazell:

Super cool, too. This is in this would be really pre like startup and tech, where those are two industries that aren't generally thought of as having extraordinary customer experiences Fast, fast food and automobile that I think it's getting better, obviously. But that's not people like what's the companies that have the best customer experience. You don't generally think of auto auto dealerships and fast food restaurants,

Brittany Hodak:

right? And it's so funny because that juxtaposition like for me to be able to see what was possible just by having a manager who said, No, this is how we're going to do things and set that expectation level and set that bar for every employee to take care of every customer and I know that it's possible to differentiate yourself with amazing customer experience, regardless of the industry that you're in. And obviously, you know, there are so many well known examples that we can look at it, you know, across different industries. But the service leaders who do this not only have more more loyal customers, but they have more loyal employees. They have people do their jobs well longer because they feel like they're a part of something. And it's not just a paycheck. It's a purpose. They're part of something bigger. And so I am a huge, huge, huge proponent of customer centricity and excellent customer experiences, and really treating your customers the way they want to be treated.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, the other thing that you said, there's Ford Motor, the next question is, as somebody who spent 20 years in sales, and a lot of did a lot of work in Customer Success, and I didn't ever do any customer support, but I was on the receiving end of having to support customers as well, many a time. There's also something very valuable being an employee at a at a company where you're not feeling like you're constantly in the firing line. Like the product doesn't work, the whole, the whole thing, like I just give you example, cuz I'm flying this week, I can't even imagine what it must be like to be the person who has to work at the lost luggage counter at the airlines. Like that must be first miserable experience. But these are probably really nice people in there, like the company I work for has just let me down every single day in my life that I've been here. So brutal, so brutal.

Brittany Hodak:

Yeah, and I would imagine that they all probably feel like the company doesn't care that much about them, because they're replaceable commodities. And if they lose the job, they'll just find somebody else to come in and try to match up bag tags and deal with angry customers. And I think what we've seen collectively as a society over the past couple of years, is employees are finally feeling empowered enough to stand up and say not anymore. Like, if this is the way it is, I don't want to be here anymore. I don't I don't want to work here anymore. And I think that, you know, there are several companies in industries that are in for like a really rude awakening over the next few years, as things kind of swing back. So yeah, you're right. It's there are so many examples of companies and industries, where they're, they're really sort of hurting right now, under the weight of employees who have said, we're gonna treat you the way you treat us. And that's not very good.

Jason Frazell:

Not very good. All right. Well, I know we could spend the whole hour talking about this. And I know we're going to talk some more about this. So I'm going to move us along and talk about something that is inside of your comfort zone. So this is the question for you. Something's inside your comfort zone that you know is outside of somebody else's, and I'm going to take something off the table, I'm going to take public speaking off the table, because it's just way too easy, because you speak in front of large audiences. So that is just, you may be a little scared. But that is definitely something you do. It's gonna make this a little more challenging for you. So what's something else that is inside of your comfort zone? That you know other people are just a hard? No, they won't do it, or that makes them very uncomfortable?

Brittany Hodak:

I would say, speaking up for others when I see things going wrong. Like I'm that person in public, who is never afraid to, like make it known to someone that what they just said to their employee was inappropriate or across the line. Wow, not Yeah, like was it and I haven't times when I've either been mistreated as a customer or seen other customers mistreated have also said things to management, but I think the one where people are like, ooh, and they'll like kind of just walk away is that like, seeing the mistakes made of employees by Yeah, and I will always speak up and very often will document it, whether that's through like a social complaint, or you know, writing a letter or posting something, if I know, it's a situation where like somebody, like if the if the store manager is the one in the wrong, I want to make sure the district manager knows or I want to make sure somebody in the home office of the franchise knows because I again, I don't think anyone should ever have to work in an environment where they feel abused or mistreated. And as a customer, I get to vote with my money, but I also get to vote with my voice. And so when I see active mistreatment happening, I'm absolutely going to speak up and say something and, you know, sometimes even like when I'm with my husband or my friends, they're like, Oh, can we just go on? I'm like, No, here we go again. Yeah, because if this is how somebody is treating an employee in front of a customer like yeah, how are they treating them when there are people around?

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, this is a good example of I'm, I am not the person who does that. And I'm very vocal and out loud in a lot of areas of my life, but that's the place where like, I shouldn't really say something but I'm just not going to because I'm just uncomfortable. This is where the people pleasing part of me comes in so that's that's, that's also very on brand for you. At the bottom of letter you're like if you'd like to learn more about how to make this better. I'm available on these three days your price is going to be triple what I usually charge because I know you need and I know this will make a huge difference for you. But yeah, that's I appreciate people like you a lot to do that. My wife is more like you she would be more willing to do it. I'm just more like it's not worth it. I don't have the energy But I really appreciate that because you do see, you do see something and you're like, oh, that, that that doesn't resonate for me as a customer when they're the way they treat employees. And it's not that often anymore, I don't think because there's because of social media, like tweet out a video of something and people like, oh my gosh, that is horrible. That's, that's really interesting, man, I'm so curious. Yeah.

Brittany Hodak:

It's so funny how social media can have that impact, because obviously, it should not take a public shaming, to get someone's attention. But again, it kind of just shows you that the balance of power is equalizing, and you know, customers have resources, employees have resources. And, you know, whether you can inspire someone to be better or like threaten them to make them better. At some point, it's like, you know, you're gonna have to come along either willingly or kicking and screaming, because this is the direction that the world is moving. And I can't wait to ask you the next part of this question. I have no idea what's coming. So what's something that's outside of your comfort zone? That you know, other people like doing? Or are comfortable with? Dancing,

Jason Frazell:

dancing, say that?

Brittany Hodak:

Any Yeah. requires coordination.

Jason Frazell:

Anything that requires coordination?

Brittany Hodak:

I'm not an athlete. I've not been gifted with any spatial awareness or rhythm, or, yeah.

Jason Frazell:

You're like, I can walk the stage when I'm speaking. But if but do not play my walk. You're not the person who's gonna You don't come dancing into your when you're like, I'm like, cuz, you know, some people do.

Brittany Hodak:

I hate weddings. Like I don't. I don't. Oh, my gosh, that's so good. Yeah, no, I don't even like to like, karaoke. I'm okay. That's mean, that's part of it. But

Jason Frazell:

yeah. Okay. So you haven't embraced your inner Elon yet is what I'm hearing. Yes. Because it's one point. I think she's she just said herself. She's like, I'm not the world's best dancer, but I'm gonna have fun with it. And now it's like one of the things she's most known for. And I think she doesn't understand up now to shoot. It's always moving. But that's that's so funny. treating her employees treating her employees. Well, yeah. That will she was for years and Yeah, exactly. did. So you just don't even enjoy, enjoy dancing. Like you're like, Nah, it's not my thing.

Brittany Hodak:

I just feel like I have the perspective and self awareness to know. My strengths. My, my areas for there's a lack of strength, we'll call it

Jason Frazell:

a lack of strength. Yeah, leading up to things, you know. Well, before we move on,

Brittany Hodak:

it's like watching, I've gotten to almost five, yeah. My husband and I will just like stand back and laugh because like, he definitely is not going to be on any dancing reality show. And, you know, he has, because he's four, but like, it's funny. So I'm like, Oh, we have something genetic?

Jason Frazell:

Will he but he will do. Will you dance with your children? If that's the thing,

Brittany Hodak:

too, which is like, I mean, yeah, I would. Yeah. I mean, you do anything with your kids? Right? Like, you don't care? Yeah, for sure. In front of your kids?

Jason Frazell:

No, no, no. Yeah, that's, that's, that's great. That's the first time in the history of the show at about 140 episodes that somebody said dancing is outside their comfort zone. But I say that because I don't think you're unique at all. I just think most people are unwilling to admit it. That's what I think. So for all of you for

Brittany Hodak:

Jason, you did not put me under oath. But I like to. I like to always operate as if I am I always say you should never say or do anything that you wouldn't want to have played back for you in court or in church. And that includes

Jason Frazell:

that really, that really hits home for me, based on the weekend I just had. All right.

Brittany Hodak:

On the court side or the church side or both?

Jason Frazell:

Oh, definitely not court. But you know, what kind of church you go to? I think a beach dance Saturday, I'll leave it at that. Definitely. Nothing illegal. least not the state.

Brittany Hodak:

Illegal, just really immoral.

Jason Frazell:

Nothing immoral, just. Yeah. All right. So Brittany, you have all sorts of things you speak on, specifically on customer experience and business and things you've done for years. So if I asked you and I said, Hey, I've got a five minute stage for you. And everybody on the planet can hear you. And we're gonna assume that translation is a thing and everybody can understand you. Because I've had a few guests that are like, ask that. I'm like, this is a hypothetical situation. I don't have the stage. I did. I would be on it. But I give you five minutes. You can speak on anything you want. What would you talk about to the audience and what would you want us to do at the end of it?

Brittany Hodak:

So I love this question. We grew up with the golden rule, right? treat others the way you want to be treated. And there's a brilliant book by Dr. Tony Alessandra where he says, you know, we've kind of as a society, as a society moved past the golden rule, we need to embrace something called the platinum rule, which is don't treat others the way you want to be treated, treat others the way they want to be treated. Because not everybody wants to be treated the same way as you we all have different preferences and backgrounds and belief systems and baggage that we bring to different situations. So to the extent that you can customize your approach to show your customers that they're not just another number, not just another PIO, not just another box for you to check, but an actual person with a backstory, and a life and a family who matters. That I think is the message and it's so funny. So I just finished writing my first book, it's called Creating superfans. It'll be in stores in January. And when my son was about to turn three, my older son so this tells you I've worked on the book for a long time. And he was almost three. And he was like, kept interrupting me, in my office downstairs. And I very nicely was like, buddy, remember, like, today's mommy's writing day? You're supposed to be outside playing with daddy, like I promised him later. And he said, Hey, Mom, what's your book about? And it was the first time he'd asked me what my book was about. So I was trying to like, explain it to him in a way that made sense for you know, an almost three year old so I was talking for a few seconds, and I could see his eyes kind of, like glazing over so I was like, What do you think, buddy? And I totally expected him to say like, That's dumb. You should write about Peppa Pig or like, right? Exactly. You know, like, whatever. Like, there's no mom, like, nobody's gonna read that book. And he looks me right in the eyes. And he says, I think you should tell the people to be nice and listen, and then he gave me a hug and he ran out of the room and I was like, did my three year old just write my book? Forwards better than I'm gonna write it in? 60,000 Be nice and listen. Boom. That's great superfans. According to Cato Hodak,

Jason Frazell:

so is Cato Vacaville. We're podcast, guest appearances at some point, independent

Brittany Hodak:

of his parents. Lego figures.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah. Oh, well, I'm a fellow Lego lover. So I'll you know, I'll send you and your husband the waiver. But I'd love to have him on because I feel like we could do a real micro podcast and just get everything we need. Like, be nice to people and listen to them. That's it. That's great. That's awesome. Also, congratulations on not having your kid tell you that what you're doing is dumb. Because my kid tells me that started to tell me that quite a bit now are like, well, she knows more.

Brittany Hodak:

So he's almost five. And just last night, it was two nights ago. He's like, you know, about to fall asleep. And he said, Hey, Mom, what if nobody likes your book? And I was like, well, that's okay, buddy. And I, you know, I really tried to use it as digital more when I was like, there, there probably going to be some people who don't like mommy's book. And that's okay. Because in life, we just do the best we can. And we try to help people and we worry about the people who liked it, not the people who don't like it. And he said, Yeah, but what if nobody likes it? And what if everybody said it's the worst book they've ever ever read? Oh, my God. I was like, go to bed. Sorry.

Jason Frazell:

Like, mommy like mommy. Like mommy says, go to bed. And then you're like, I need an emergency therapy session. I have been traumatized by my fight by almost five year old. That's your like, my worst fears spoken by my own my own spawn?

Brittany Hodak:

Yeah, although, you know, when you woke up the next morning, he said, Mommy, even if everybody hates your book, I'm still gonna buy a bunch of copies. And I like your

Jason Frazell:

book. Oh, my gosh, that is adorable. And he said,

Brittany Hodak:

I like it. Because my names in it.

Jason Frazell:

I think all of those I gotta say, I don't. I don't know about your book to know, people are gonna love it. I do have to say I really appreciate the reason he likes it is because his name is in it. There's something really valuable about that.

Brittany Hodak:

Right? Yeah. He's seen it on the proofs. And it's funny, like, I think when he was seeing me, like go through all the different rounds of edits, like printing out, you know, versions of the manuscript, he would sometimes like, draw on the pages. And he always tried to be really sneaky. And I was like, funny. It's fine. You can draw on the pages. And so then like, on subsequent drafts, he was like, where's my drawing? Where's this? Where's that? And I was like, Oh, he thinks that, like the print like the markups I'm making are going in the book. So he might be really disappointed when he sees it. And there's no like dragons and, you know, aliens and other things that he's drawn throughout all the different realms of proofs.

Jason Frazell:

I mean, just this is this is a commissionable idea if you do decide to accept that you could make a kid's book out of this creating super fans child edition and like you and Kato like illustrated that'd be like a cute little like cartoon. You know, sometimes people do that. They take like adult things they turn into like a kid's illustrated book. I can't think of an example now but there are some out there but a great example. Yeah, Phil Jones She

Brittany Hodak:

called exactly what to say. And he wrote a kid's book called The magic of words or magic words, something like that. It's really exactly that. Yeah, it's funny, we actually have talked about that. Because the so I have an acronym, a five part acronym that I use to teach people to create superfans. And it's based around the word super, because like many parents, if I'm going to remember something and do it, I need it to be simple. Because my brain is filled with like, all kinds of useless information, right, I have to remember the names of characters from like, 87 different shows. Plus, like every random request my kids make, and like where every toy is, so like, if other information is going to creep its way into my head, it needs to be really sticky. So I use the acronym super, and I call it my super model. And it's all about how to create superfans. And so Kaito actually suggested that we write a book about super fans for kids, but it's as a superpower. And he's like mommy's a superpower. And like somebody whose superpower is being nice and listening. And then they can like, make friends and make people feel comfortable and whatever. So this was all his idea one night, and I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna file that away is after this book is done. Yeah. Right. Back to that idea, kid.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah. Also, second and final, not final offer. When he when that book comes out, please. He is welcome on the show that that is another brilliant idea. That's a great idea. And what a great lesson. All right. Really? Yeah, he sounds like a very smart four year old. I Bernie. We're going to take a very brief commercial break. We'll be right back after this. All right, Brittany, we're back. So what else? Do you want us to know about you?

Brittany Hodak:

Um, what else do I want to know about me? I have a crazy ability to find four leaf clovers. It's like freaky. My whole life. I've just told people I can find them because they're purple. And nobody's ever been able to, like disprove that. Because I can just like look at a patch and find them in selling seriously. Yeah, it's like a really weird skill. I wish it was transferable to like other areas. But I've yet to find a way I can't like pick lottery numbers or anything,

Jason Frazell:

or like invest in like crypto in 2011. Or you're like, oh, there's that startup over there that I can see. But I have to ask you about I've never heard of this before.

Brittany Hodak:

I did tech for money. When Google was IPO when I was in high school. I begged my parents and my grandparents. I was like, Please, just please let me have $5,000 I'll pay it back to you this company. I'm telling you. And they were like, Yeah, I don't really understand what this is all about search.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, that's only split like five times since then. And you know, whatever. But wait, so you're telling me if I if I was to hold up, like a pot of clover, you'd be able to spot the four leaf clover because it would look different to you?

Unknown:

Instantly? Yeah, that's amazing. I've

Jason Frazell:

never heard that.

Brittany Hodak:

But I can find it like my brains zeroes in that I'm also really good at those puzzles like, like, first Waldo type things where you find one thing that's different? I don't know.

Jason Frazell:

You know, what you probably have? Do you know what sent the Stasia is?

Brittany Hodak:

No, but it sounds awesome. It is

Jason Frazell:

cool. Well, so I'm gonna probably get this wrong, and people can write it and tell me how wrong you got it. So synesthesia is people that have a superpower to come. Combine two types of two types of senses. So a couple people that have supposedly a simpler stage or say that it was John Mayer and Stevie Wonder, they can see sounds and colors. So people that are gonna like improvising and musician. There are other ways to do it, though where it's so for you, it might be something like, I guess they both be site. But there's something really unique about the shape of it that actually has it looked different to from a color perspective. I don't know if that's an I forget what site combined is, but it's, but most people have something some sort of Stasia. But then it's like, There's levels of them where these some of these people that are like, can smell something from like really far away and be like, I know exactly what that is. That's like, the superpower of like, the smell thing. It's like where your senses are higher, or they combined. It's really interesting. My friend taught me about this, so I take no credit for it. But wow, that is so cool. So you can say, friends? I do I have a lot of smart friends, that's for sure. Which they always say as if you know, like, the best thing you do is just surround yourself with smart people. Then you can learn from them. But you have what I would say about that Bernie's? If I'm thinking out loud here like, you can spot a difference in patterns very quickly, which is like Where's Waldo? A coral clover, which a four leaf clover for most people. It's really hard to see. That's so cool.

Brittany Hodak:

Yeah, it's, I mean, like, I'll go out in my backyard and find 30 You know, we'll go it's funny like my husband's like, don't pick them up like cones. We'll just like go on walks. And I'm not even trying like, I'll just be like, oh, there's falling over. Oh, there's another one. Well, there's like I just see them. It's so weird.

Jason Frazell:

And that's the is that the only other thing you want us to know about you

Brittany Hodak:

I'm gonna tell you how I can tell you all kinds of things about

Jason Frazell:

No, I, that's, that is another good example. That is another good example of a really, I've never heard. That's why I love doing this podcast because one, I get to spend time with smart, interesting people. But to like, I had no idea that that was even a thing, that it would look different, and you'd be able to see it not based on the shape, but it would show up differently. That's, um, you're like a Marvel superhero to me now, like, this is like the Marvel where they can, like in a crowd of a million people, they can be like, Oh, there's the bad guy I'm looking for. And they can see them and they're, like, actually show up differently. So cool.

Brittany Hodak:

Maybe that's why I am so bothered by poor customer service and poor customer experience, just because it shows up very differently in my brain. It's like a red blinking light. Sometimes I get really petty about it. So here's like a brand new example that I'll probably write about and post about very soon. And I'm still kind of like waiting to see how it all plays out. So we were at the county fair on Saturday night, and my son was a goldfish that he named cuddles and he was so excited to cuddles him. And so it was late Saturday night and I was like, oh, we need we need to buy some stuff for cuddles because we got a new member of the family. And so I looked online and I and he wanted a bowl. He didn't want an aquarium, which was fine. Because we were like, you know, it's a fair fish. Like, I don't know. I don't know how long cuddles is going to be part of the family. So I was like, okay, yeah, we'll just get a simple bowl. He wanted a bowl because that's what Peppa Pig has. So I look online, and I'm like, oh, Walmart has this like everything you need fish starter kit, and it's $11. Awesome. So typically, what I would do is have it sent to me, like I have Walmart plus, so they'll like deliver stuff to your house, or I would do order pickup, but because it was like seven o'clock Saturday night, I was like, oh, we'll just like swing by the store. And it says like, you know, in stock aisle, whatever. So I get to the store. And they have it, but it's marked as $19. And I was like, well, that's weird. It was like 1052 online, and I actually moved the little tag, and I see the tag right behind it that says 1052. So somebody has like, marked it up almost double, right? And I see all the other stuff is also like marked up and I started looking around and I'm like, Okay, this is not inflation. This is reflation. I get the tank, and I go to checkout to the self checkout, and I send to somebody excuse me, like, you can price match stuff on the website like this. I came here to get this supposed to be 1052. And she was like, no, sorry, it's you know, it says that it's, you know, $19. And I was like, right, but I could buy this on the app right now. And you would deliver it to my house tomorrow for $10. Or I could buy it and pick it up tomorrow on the server $10. Like, I understand third party sellers and such, but like, this is clearly yours. Like that is so dumb. Like what sense does that make? It's her response to me was them's the rules. I don't make them. And I was like, right, but like, you understand what I'm saying? And she's like, No, I do. But you know, Walmart has its reasons and like, they want people to shop in the app. And I was like, right, I shopped me up all the time, which is why I came here and went directly to aisle J 13. Because the app said you can go get this analogy 13. And it's $2.52. I know. And I showed her the picture. And I was like, Oh, by the way, like, at some point. I don't know if it was last week or last month, but it was 1052 in the stores. And now it's $19. And she's like, Yeah, I can't help you. So I was like, Alright, cool. Like, here's what I'm gonna do. Oh, and then I asked, I was like, I know if I buy it online, I have to like wait for you guys to like bag it to put it in the store. Can I just buy it for 22 in the app? Like, can you watch me hit this button and then take it and she's like, Well, no, ma'am, you can't do that. And I was like, Cool. So here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna take this home right now because cuddles needs a place to live. And then I'm also going to order it in the app. So tomorrow morning, someone from your store is going to have to like go get this off the shelf, drive it to my household miles away, leave it on my front porch and drive back to your store so that I can buy it for 1052. And then the next time I'm in the store, I'm going to return that one for $19 Because I have the receipt for buying in the stores. And she's like yeah, ma'am, like, I can't help you. Like why are Why are you still talking? Like, I don't amazing, that's the way it is. And so I was like cool. So I was like alright, if them's the rules what else is Walmart overcharging for in stores based on like, what I could buy it for cheaper online. So like a crazy person, I went around the store and I found a bunch of stuff that is heavy, that cost more in the store than in the app and I started ordering all the items one at a time for them to deliver to my house. Okay, environment, but because as a customer I feel like that's the one little tiny thing I can do to take a stand to say Don't f with me Walmart like you're one of the biggest corporations on the planet. You don't have to take advantage of your customers. You don't Yeah, so we're gonna sell things for 50 to 100% higher just because we think we Can because there's less competition when somebody is in our stores. That's ridiculous. It costs you so much more in terms of money and effort to like, actually have somebody walk into your store. So Walmart is telling me and hundreds and millions of other customers, hey, you know what you should do not shop in our stores. Yeah, that's the message I'm going to buy. Like I was, I bought a three pound bag of gravel like aquarium for $3 that they're going to have to ship to my house. And I don't pay for shipping because I'm a Walmart Plus member. So I was like, what other heavy shit Capri Sun I don't know why they're charging the dollar more for the Capri Sun in the stores and they are aligned. But I know Capri Sun is heavy to ship. So I'm ordering a bunch of that one packet at a time.

Jason Frazell:

I'm going to tell you, I don't know if this I don't know if this is going to resonate for you or not. But I now you will forever be known to me as the Larry David of customer experience. Like you just literally outlined a perfect episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm. And I'm just picturing. I'm just picturing Larry, like my response to that woman. I'm sorry, ma'am. I can't help you. My response. And this is where I will speak up is I'll be like, you can't or you won't because there's a big difference here between can't and won't can't implies there's a rule won't means you're unwilling. Which one is it?

Brittany Hodak:

That's awesome. It's so funny. I sometimes I asked my husband like Do you ever wish you were married to somebody like 20% Less petty? And he was like, no.

Jason Frazell:

He's like, Oh, like, it's like, it depends.

Brittany Hodak:

Yeah, well, cuz I'll like lose interest. Like the next time I'm wronged by some other company. I'll like go on my little silent crusade against them. Like the other the other day, anybody still listening is like, wow, she's psycho. I got a call out of the blue from someone who said, you know, hey, this is Charles calling from XFINITY customer service, I need to review your account with you. And I was like, okay, and turns out Charles was like a third party telesales person who was trying to upgrade me to like some, he was like, oh, you know, your internet traffic price is about to triple and I'm gonna get to that. But you really need this, like, x one box thing we have. And I was like, No, don't ever use TV in my house as a fire TV like, I don't need an external box. And he was like, I don't think you understand. Like, what this box? Do you think it peacock for free, and you can stream everything. And I was like, right, but all of my TVs are Fire TV. So like, I don't need a streaming box. And he was like, You're just afraid of change. And I was being very nice. This guy called me. He was like, You're just afraid to change. And you obviously don't understand what a great deal this is. Because if you did, you would buy it. And I'm so sick of people who just are afraid of change and don't understand a great deal. And he hung up on me. And I was like, so anyway, at the beginning of that call, he had said, you know, Hi, this call may be monitored for customer service. So I was like, fuck this dude, that's gonna like call and interrupt my workday on a Tuesday and yell at me. I don't think so. So I tweeted to xfinity. And I was like, Yo, I just got a call from Charles at this number. You guys need to go and listen to that recording on whatever platform you're recording it on. Because he was very rude and like, yeah, Ambassador for your brand. And they of course, were like, oh, you know, somebody's gonna get right back to you. So somebody on the customer service, he was like, yeah, so that's actually not someone from our company. That's a third party independent sales company. And I was like, well, that's weird, because when he called me he didn't say Hi, I'm Charles from an independent third party tells. You said, I'm Charles from XFINITY. So like every single employee, partner, vendor, anybody who's representing your brand in any way, like that is the brand to your customers, every single employee is the most important ambassador of your company. And if they do a ship job, your customer does not care enough to do the work to figure out if it was a terrible experience, because of like one misaligned employee or because you just have a terrible process. And as a company don't care how your employees or your customers

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, so there's two there's, there's a lot of things to learn from that story. I'm just going to summarize the two main things that I hear a lot to unpack here, but there's a lot there's a lot to unpack. We're gonna be here for another three hours No, Brittany, so the two things I will say is one you are passionate about customer experience. Number two, for all of us out here, never cross Britney is not going to end well. You are going to end up on social media. You may tweet it at treat her with kindness because if you don't big problems ahead for you really big problem you aren't you are I'm gonna start I don't know if you're a if you or your husband are fan of Kirby enthusiasm, but you talk to anybody who's a friend of yours, who's a fan of Larry David, I'm a huge fan and you say I know somebody who now calls me the Larry David of customer experience, and they're gonna be like, that's accurate. I guarantee they're gonna be like that makes sense that Walmart story is such a Larry David thing. Once he's once he's wrong.

Brittany Hodak:

He's YaSM he absolutely well, I'm sure he will agree with you. I've only seen a few episodes just because we it's like for two ships passing night when it comes to TV like because we've got two little kids so we never get to watch news together anymore. So it's kind of like I have my things and he has his things I was telling you before we started recording, we'd like just started Stranger Things season one, because we were like, We need something new to watch. But you know, it's gonna take us like, a month and a half to make it. No, of course watching it 18 minutes at a time at like one o'clock in the morning.

Jason Frazell:

All right, Brittany, well, let's help you like the show or Netflix is gonna get some they're gonna hear about it. I love it. This is actually great business development. For you though. You can be like, listen, I can either shout you out on social. Or you can put me in touch with your event planner for your next conference where I can talk to you hold them hostage.

Brittany Hodak:

The companies that I work for, they're like, we kind of want you to secret santa us, but like that we're also terrified.

Jason Frazell:

Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. And then like filament. Be like, let me start our conference with this. Well, you could do that you could probably do that a competitor of Walmart's and they would probably be like, yes, yeah. Anyway, Brittany

Brittany Hodak:

says she doesn't make the rules them just the rules.

Jason Frazell:

Them's just the rules. That's that's the new class. That's the classic thing. The other thing I'll say about Charles and Linda, the other thing I'll say about Charles is, if there's one way to make sure you never connect with anybody ever make them feel dumb by telling they don't understand something. Even if people know they don't understand something, nobody wants to be like you don't understand, because that's implying that you're stupid, or you don't understand the logic behind it. Bad, bad mojo. This is why people like you are needed in this world, because there's so much bad stuff that happens out there in terms of experience. All right, man, I'm a little scared slash really excited for the next thing. And this is where you get to ask me anything you want? And I'll answer it for you. And I have no idea what's coming here. So let's see.

Brittany Hodak:

All right, Jason, I want to know what is a company or service that always well as you with their customer experience, that you are a customer for life? Yeah.

Jason Frazell:

Man, I can think of a number of things. I can think of a number of companies. I like I'm a technology person. I think a number of companies like these pieces of technology, just amazing. But then I don't know if I interact with them. I'll tell you a company that I really have had nothing but amazing experiences with in the last five years and this company will not surprise you. And it's best buy because they went through a reinvention around this. Man. I'm a total tech member. I think the stores are great. The staff is super friendly. And I'm from Minnesota, originally I like Best Buy is based in in Richfield, Minnesota, which is a suburb of the Twin Cities. So I have an affinity to them, and I used to sell to them, but like, man, you go in there and people are really friendly. They're really like the checkout process. I don't know if I think COVID changed their checkout process. It's so fast. They don't print out a receipt anymore. I hate receipts. I'm like, I don't need a receipt emailed to me it's automatic. I'm a rewards member. It's all super flawless. It's very fast. The stores never seem overly busy anymore. And it's not like I'm shopping on Black Friday but I think the way they've laid them out it feels spacious. I've had nothing but good good success and good experience with Best Buy I can't think of one bad experience I've had in the last five years at Best Buy their delivery rocks to like they deliver faster than Amazon sometimes. So I yeah, I would say Best Buy is the one that comes to mind. The other brand there was something I thought of man I'm drawing a blank now on what I have I have so many examples in the last week of just horrible like horrible like but these are also companies that employ a 16 year old so I just don't have a high expectation either. Yeah, the best Yeah, I would say Best Buy and I am I am at Best Buy I would like to sponsor this episode I'm more than open to that conversation. But no Best Buy has been been great and their and their total tack rewards program really good really easy. I get when I buy enough stuff I get like rewards, gift certificates. They just show up in my email. It's like oh, here's somebody $5 Really, really good stuff. They I think it was they went through a real reinvention about five years ago from not mistaken where they were they were struggling with E commerce and then they just reinvented the store experience all the loyalty things and it's been great.

Brittany Hodak:

That's a great example and don't give a pass to companies that employ teenagers. I think you know, fast food is a great example like there are so many fast food restaurants in my town right now that have had to shorten their hours. They have giant signs out front saying like starting pay Is $16 an hour, you know, who is not shorten their hours at all and has not had to put outside saying they're hiring to play and play all the time. Obviously they have a reputation for treating customers really well, a couple of months ago, I was in the drive thru line. And there were two girls who looks like they're probably like late teens, early 20s. And one of them said to the other one is who is grabbing a drink, you know, those people at Taco Bell could never do what we do, and love that. They couldn't. And as I pulled up, I was like, You're right. They couldn't, and they were

Jason Frazell:

so good

Brittany Hodak:

for anybody to hear into his apologizing. And I was like, Don't apologize, own it. But like, it is great for 13. Yeah. Somebody who is 16 can absolutely be customer centric, if they are taught to do so. And then encouraged to do so. Whether that's through, you know, the way that they're being paid or rewarded or acknowledged, like anyone can be taught to be customer centric, whether there are 168, you

Jason Frazell:

didn't ask this, but I'm going to share this experiences from yesterday. My daughter, when we're on the road, we're driving back from somewhere yesterday, she likes a happy meal, but her order is very specific. Hamburger, no bun, no anything. So just the patty. And yesterday, her order was no fries, extra apples. So I make that order. I say it once I say and I repeat it. And I say just to make sure you understand this order, and they didn't have the board, you know, some things have boards, they put it on, we pull up to the window. And I say, hey, just to be sure this has double apples. No fries, and he's like, yes, for sure. Nope. You just like straight Streeters didn't check our straight line. It was not what my it was not my daughter ordered, or what I ordered for my daughter. I'm just like, that doesn't actually take any time or energy to just do just do it. Right? Like that's just share, like lack of motivation.

Brittany Hodak:

Yeah, exactly. And it's funny, I was going through the McDonald's drive thru, like less than a week ago for my son, and I ordered on the app. And so they were like, you know, go go to the second window. So when I get to the second window, they were like, they were trying to give me an order that clearly wasn't mine. And I was like, No, this is I like showed on my phone with the order number. And it was a really simple order. It was like a chicken sandwich and a Happy Meal. And they were trying to give me all this other stuff. And the woman didn't speak English. And I was like, like this. And finally, I was so mad, I just drove away. Because my son's in the backseat screaming, I was like, it's going to be faster for me to go somewhere else, then we were on the way to a doctor's appointment. So I was like, we'll get we'll come back later. And we'll get ice cream. But we didn't go to McDonald's, we went to a different McDonald's. Having a language barrier or an understanding barrier between the person serving the customer and the customer is always a recipe for disaster. So like you said, you deal with a lot of tech companies, I know that's your background, having a customer success manager that doesn't understand the software or doesn't understand the industry that you're in. So for the applications of your software, like there is nothing more frustrating. So that's another huge part of customer experience, and especially customer service, is making sure that the person in charge of delivering that experience, damn, well understand that the customer needs and Oh, yeah. How that's relevant to the rest of the world.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, totally. One of the, just to this point, one of the places I do a lot of work, we do a lot of training and facilitation work. And we get a prep sheet, and one of the quote and it's like actually, like, hey, what do you call your customers? So like, for example, I know this, because I used to sell to target a target, you're a guest. If you go to Target and be like, hey, like we're gonna sell you to your customers. They're like, You don't understand us period. I don't know Chick fil

Brittany Hodak:

A corrected ones at Target corporate when I asked customers like they, the buyers will stop you and say we don't

Jason Frazell:

have guests. We have guests. I think Chick fil A might have a special terminology too, if I'm not mistaken, I don't maybe they call them customers, where they use guest. Yeah, but it's like, it's actually like a thing that and this goes for anybody listening who's in sales or selling to companies, like just understand these things. These are out there. And if you do that, you just are so much more credible and so much easier to connect, versus just like the transactional part of it. So Brittany, let's um, let's wrap today. Let's talk a little bit about the book. Let's talk about speaking let's talk about some of the things and and I would really encourage everybody to get on Brittany's email list. I knew your ILA email list was for me when I saw a picture you and Keith Urban on it. I said that I Yes. I was just like, like I was already a yes. And I was like, this is this speaks to my soul. So yeah. Talk to us about what you're up to in the world right now. Like obviously you said you finish the book. It's not out yet. Talk to us about the your speaking your book, all that good stuff. How's your podcast? Whatever you whatever you got going on?

Brittany Hodak:

Yes. So my book is called Creating superfans how to turn your customers into lifelong advocates. As you heard, I'm very, very passionate about this subject matter. And in the book, I share lots and lots of very actionable ideas. I share examples of people doing it, right people doing it wrong, but I write it so that it's really accessible. Because I'm a huge believer that if people don't connect, like they're never going to be able to implement. So the book is really fun. It uses a lot of music and pop culture references, so that every member of your team can read it. And then they have a shared language that they can use, that they can hold each other accountable to it to five steps supermodel within that book that everyone can use to create super fans. So I hope that people want to go ahead and preorder it you can go ahead and get a copy of it. Now. It's available for preorder everywhere books are sold, and love. It's in your hands on January 10. If you preorder it now,

Jason Frazell:

January 10. Yeah, so good. Thanks, Brittany. Well, I know this about you, as I've gotten to know you, but you can tell Brittany is light lively, a lot of fun. And I cannot wait to read the book because I'm sure that that shows up in there. Like it's a it's gonna be a fun book. It's not going to be dark and dreary stories about.

Brittany Hodak:

So but I actually in full color. I made the full color because it's all about it's amazing. Like I want people to find magazine.

Jason Frazell:

Yeah, so well, we'll put the we'll put the preorder link in the show notes. We will put a link to your website and all that good stuff. Also check out checkout. Brittany, there's videos of you out there speaking. You speak to a lot of companies on this customer experience and just amazing. Amazing. And I'm just gonna warn everybody again, if you recognize Britney, make sure you don't cross her. Do not want

Brittany Hodak:

to cross. Larry David at customer experience. Don't

Jason Frazell:

make the Larry David. Your husband is gonna I think he's really gonna appreciate I'm very proud of that one.

Brittany Hodak:

No, he's gonna Yeah. And

Jason Frazell:

then after you tell them tell them to to film you doing this and make sure you put the doo doo doo doo doo doo like the look. And like the okay.

Brittany Hodak:

Sorry, his Instagram Stories forever from this.

Jason Frazell:

I need to follow. That's so good. Well, Brittany, want to thank you for being on today. What's really fun about this episode, besides talking to you is, it's gonna get released in two days, which is not always the way I do this podcast. So that'd be really fun. This is very fresh. So you can when when all of you listening here, Brittany story of Walmart. It happened three days ago, when you hear this episode. If you're listening on Wednesday, all times. See, you see how it's played out. So follow her on Twitter, follow her on Instagram. And you might see that them's just the rules is the rule. If they're if there's one thing I want my kids to not understand that statement is them's just the rules. Like I do not want my kids to be like, Oh, those are the rules. Okay, that's it. Unless the rules came from me, then them's is the rule. chart your own path unless Daddy says no. And then I want you to be quiet and not trying to bother me about it. So

Brittany Hodak:

don't be like no wanna listen to you.

Jason Frazell:

They'll be like, Mona. Yeah, exactly. So Brittany, as we wrap up today, love to get short, quick share from you words of wisdom, something you thrown on Instagram. And yeah, what do you got for us?

Brittany Hodak:

I feel like I'm going to do a callback to Kato's great advice, be nice. And listen, that's all you got to do. If you'd be nice and listen, you will make your customers feel seen heard validated, treat them the way they want to be treated, and they will reward you both in the short term and the long term.

Jason Frazell:

Thanks so much, Brittany, and thank you so much. Kaito when you listen to this, maybe he would you let him listen to the end of this so you could hear me say thank you Kato? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Was what there's a few cuss words in your I don't know what your you know, what your standards and your house are?

Brittany Hodak:

Very, very good at contextual swearing.

Jason Frazell:

Context. Yes. Contextual and so Kaito thank you for the advice. Right, like it's it's just it's so funny. Makes sense? Yes. Okay. Well, yes, of course. So Kaito message for you. One your mom's book is going to rock and roll. And if you ever hit us, writing a book is not for the faint of heart. So congratulations on doing that and actually finishing it. And Cato thank you for the really great words of wisdom and for making sure your mommy's book is great. The first time in history the show I've I've talked specifically to somebody's kid. Thanks so much, Brittany.

Brittany Hodak:

So when you first somebody First, take care